quote:

Originally posted by Turk:
For those young ones on here like Scott, Mark who may not have seen the movie 20yrs ago might not understand this but i am sure Tony and others can see the relevance to the lines below..

D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the **** happened to the delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you're gonna let it be the worst. "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer...
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these *******s. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: *Let’s do it*!

I think the following quote may be a better fit:

Dean Vernon Wormer: MR. BLUTARSKY ... ZERO POINT ZERO.

It is an unfortunate to see a track that has decent potential, have such poor execution. Last night's "2 Wheel Tuesday" was a complete flop. Once again, advertised as 7pm-10 pm and in practice only operated from about 7:05-8:45. The "excuse" given was that it was obviously not realistic to turn the lights on since there were only about 15 bikes. If it were so obvious, why would a planner set it up to be run during twilight hours in the first place? Noraml test adn tune is (supposed to) start at 6pm. Why woudl one push the start back for a three hour session if they planned to not turn on the lights?

The comment was made that hopefully there will be a better turnout next time. Is that what management has come to....Hope? Really? Why would I want to come back next time? Should I just Hope it will be better?

Quite frankly, the allusion to McDonalds was very good. I paid for a cheeseburger as advertised and only got the bun. Sure there was ample time to get "alot" of runs in IF someone wanted to run round robin, but some of us actually have real racing machines (that run faster in the 1/8th than 80% of the vehicles that show up run in the 1/4). For us, the "tuning" part of Test and TUNE is important to enable us to setup our equipment.

Can anyone here recall a test and tune at ANY track that only lasted 1 hr and 45 minutes? (not mention the cleanup that lasted about 15-20 minutes and the reality that the total time the"lanes" were open was closer to 1.5 hours...minus the clean-up)

Has anyone been to another track where starters wait until the previous vehicel is at the starting line before releasing the next vehicle from the "lanes" to go to the box?

Has anyone been to a track that Claims they prep the track so well that the "Bite is Right" and in fact is very sub-par as compared to anyone else bragging about how good the traction is?

How about tech officials riding wheelies down the track on their pit bike to go to a clean-up and wheeling the bikes around the pits?

PRP is approximately a 35-40 minute drive for me. It is unfortunate that i will need to add 2 hrs to that drive to go any of the other closest tracks. That said, why waste the preparation and 80 minutes drive time to not be able to accomplish what needs to be done? I woudl much rather spend more time (and travel costs) to at least get what I plan for.

It is really not about the money guys. I'd gladly pay double to actually get the track time and some real track preparation performed.

I even wore a bracket finale shirt from 2001 last night. The facilities were not nearly what they are today back then, however, there were at least as many racers....actually, there were more, at least for bikes.

"Sunday, out of 110 racers there were four people affected by the adjustment" Ok, so for the 110 racers that showed up, only 4 were affected. Perhaps if 20 were affected, more people may be interested in giving it a shot. overall, if the total amount of money spent to get everyone to the track, car maintanence travel, etc weas spent on powerball tickets (with powerplay of course), the 110 racers woudl have likely come out ahead.

PRP....Zero point Zero.

John Gover

Suggestions for track improvement:

-ALWAYS have a vehicle waiting to do its burnout when the previous set of vehicles is staged. Not ready to leave the lanes, not ready to have numbers called in, not waiting in the pits, IN the water box, ready to go.

-Start events at the scheduled time. First vehicle pulled from the lanes and directed to the water box at the planned start time. Sure there will be technical issues that may prevent this occasionally, but normal track prep and other items that can be planned should be completed well in advance.

-Never delay the start of a test and tune because "there are cars lined up out to 22". I fail to see how this has anything to do with a test session. On race day, maybe there is a viable reason to do so, however I cannot think of one. Either you are there or you miss the first round of time trials. It really is that simple. the number of people that are late and complain will be less than the number that prepared and are on time and have to wait around for the late folks. Additionally, why would one try to be there early only to sit and wait? The problem compounds itself.

-Is there any benefit to having EMT's sit at the starting line rather than at teh finish line? While there have been emergancy medical issues from folks in the lanes or pits, there is always going to be a greater risk of injury from a highspeed crash incident. Perhaps there is a viable reason for having them at the starting line...

-Clean-up. Why is a lengthy clean-up often blamed on Synthetic oil? I don't disagree that synthetic oil may be harder to clean-up, however, the use of synthetic is not exclusive to PRP. Other tracks don't seem to take nearly as long to clean their surface. Perhaps I am incorrect, but one would thing that IHRA would be able to provide some insight / assistance on clean-up techniques such as chemicals to use, scrubber brush and solvent selection, general methodology, etc. I understand that some techniques are very expensive, however it appears that a more scientific approach rather than "back up and punt" may be beneficial to a speedy clean-up. Are track clean-up techniques really so much of a black art that other tracks will not share? Is MIR really a competing track to PRP in that Royce or Jason miller wouldn't provide some pointers?

-Some tracks have open time trials during the first hour of their program rather than structured. This sometimes counts towards the two time trials, sometimes not. Perhaps having open time trials in the beginning of a race or test day and still limiting the vehicles to 2 time trials on race day through use of a tick mark on the tech sticker, could speed up the program and or provide a few people a quick way to get their time trials in and sit back and relax if they wish.

-Maybe they are available, maybe not, but perhaps making race passes or test and tune passes available for pre-purchase would speed up the entry process as there woudl be less time required to count change and deal with cash general. Perhaps offering a race pass to the top 4 in each class would be beneficial in that the person will be more likely to return. What better way to attract more people to the track than to give 4th place racer a free race pass and maybe a few spectator passes. Maybe He'll convince his buddy to come with him next week because "hey, I have this free pass..." hell, Hell, give me a coupon for a free order of fries a drink and a burger if I have the lowest RT of qualifying or eliminations or whatever. What would that cost...2-3 bux plus the token (which you could re-use) or ticket or whatever?

Most of the above suggestions have little or no cost associated with them. Some are just a matter of asking for help. Some are buying $20 worth of tokens and $20 worth of food to make people have a more enjoyable experience.

Pretty much anything at all that can reduce the number of times people say,"What the $%^&" or reduce the number of times people shake their head in disgust is a step in the right direction.

There are certainly alot of people that will just complain about everything, but there are likely alot more that will smile just for winning a free hotdog.

This site is starting to sound like the stuff going on QCR's site. Management needs to understand that racers want to know what they are racing for prior to spending their hard earned money. especially the big $ RACES. Its that simple. Sometimes things have to be modified but this should be kept to a minimum. This will eliminate most of the hard feelings.

If you are not sure that the race will be well attended, then you need to make provisions for that and explain them upfront.

Now, SHHH, I am hunting wabbits at QCR. Bill P., Elmer is immune to troll spray.

Just be fore warned about eating too much fast food! Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life!

Mark and Matt,

You are right, we did not attend this race. We attended the race at the end of last year and left the track after a very miserable experience. I know that we were not the only ones that felt that way after that race. We chalked up the bad experience to a little frustration on Greg's part as the race was last minute and there had been a lot of staffing changes at PRP. I think some of us (or those that I spoke with) did not come to this race simply because we wanted to see if things had changed after our previous experience. With an advertised payout that was not paid out that makes it hard for some of us that would like to come race there to tow 2+ hours to show up to have the payouts or races changed without knowing that there is a possibility of an alternative payout. I personally don't think either of you want to make the kind of tow to be told like it or take you money and go back home. Maybe I am wrong, but I like to know ahead of time what we are racing for before we pay our entry at the gate.

I like PRP, the people that race there are good people, the food has been good at the cafe (if you don't race good, eat good) and the racers are always good but if the management expects the support from outside racers or looking to get guys to tow there more often, this kind of decision process has to stop before it deters more people from coming back. I think that the payout was good even for the entry but you need to tell people upfront if you are going to have an alternative payout or change. Maybe the next attempt will be a little better and all things go as planned.

I have tried all day but cannot keep from adding my .02

Facts:
* There were changes made to the purses.
* There were no car count minimums placed on the purses. However there were also no Gurantees on the purse.
* The purses were based on 75 cars.
* There were never 75 entries on any of the 4 days.
* Friday and Saturday payed the full purse with out the minimum car count.
* Sunday there was a minor change to the program.
* Sunday there were 2 options given to the racers on the changes for voting.
* There was still a lot of money paid out on the weekend.


Based on some of the posts I can understand why some cannot support races like this, the cost is too high. These are things out of your control as the economy is still down and working to rebound.

I have always supported races like this when I can within 5 hours of my house. Have I had changes made to purses when I have been at other tracks absolutely. Did I know they were going to change before I got there, No. Was I upset? Yes. Did I bash the track for doing this? No. Did I return to those tracks? Yes. If we do not support races like this at PRP, QCR, Pacemakers, Norwalk, Thompson and other tracks around here they will go away.

I bet that if everyone that questioned the turnout/payout/minimums would have shown up at the track to race this past weekend we would have had 100 cars in each class and paid the full purses all 4 days rather than 2.

With that said I wish everyone luck the rest of this season and hope that mother nature keeps up the sunshine on racing weekends.

There are things that can always be better and that is what PRP and many other tracks are trying to do, however if we do support them in their efforts it will not be their detriment it will be ours.

Just my .02 on the topic now lets get back to racing.

I want to vote for John_Gover as the new President of USA

Man you can fix all our problems. I am paying to much for gas at the pumps can you fix that now, oh and even getting take out pizza cost $20 now can you fix that too. You seem to have the answers for everything. And for the ultimate can you tell us why Tony is gay???

I think that John's posts are intelligent and well thought out, unlike Matt's "Go to Beaver and stay there, you tools." Sorry Matt, I still love you. Do I agree with everything he said, no. But there were some good points made none-the-less. There are alot of good points being made here. Here's another one. Has anyone noticed that the big money races that we have tried in the past, none was as successful as we had liked. It's almost like there is a plaque when we try to do this type of event. Personally I'd like to see them give up on them(THAT'S MY OPINION, NO NEED TO JUMP DOWN MY THROAT). John Gover for Pres., Matt Cadd. for V.P., Chuck for Secretary of State. And Bill Turk for defense secretary. His motto has always been, "Don't ask Don't tell". In his case we don't even need to ask, we already know he's a homo.

Check out page 138 of this weeks ND. I'm so handsome

Just throwing this out there!!! I wonder how many cars would have showed up for a $100 3 day event, I personally know of 5 possibly 6 cars that would have been there,But i know this was a Big Dollar shootout type Race and unfortunately myself and the other 5 or 6 cars just could not swing that $$$ It is the same thing as the casino If all of the slot machines were high Roller type slots at $50 a play how many people would be there??? I personally play the nickle slots myself LOL

I'll probably get ripped 4 this but.....
I have always wondered Y the payout, even on a reg race day didn't start at a certain level and increase if the car count went past a certain number? I always thought this would be a carrot hanging out there to encourage cars to come out and race even if they are not in the points.
Friday nite looks like another small turn-out for the PPM. Let's hope its only temp.
Obviously .....

quote:

Originally posted by AJ Casini:


Facts:
* The purses were based on 75 cars.

Were there 2 flyers for this event?

I can't find any reference to "car count" as a basis for payment of the event's advertised purse(s) in the flyer that was posted in the events section of Bracket Talk.

quote:

* There were no car count minimums placed on the purses. However there were also no Gurantees on the purse.

Triple looks like you need to read a little better. Stated right above no minimums were advertised but also no guarantees.

AJ,

So where did your "fact" claim that purses were based on 75 cars come from?

The flyer didn't define the word "win" either, but do you think anyone would have stood for that being changed to 'must take stripe by no more than .002 while hanging your left foot out the window' to qualify as a "win"?

Any claim that a purse wasn't guaranteed rings a bit hollow when there was not any mention that the advertised purses had a tie to any number of entries or other criteria.

That is why most state's Attorney Generals quickly put a stop to any practice by the neighborhood grocery store of advertising T-Bone Steaks for $.49 a pound with no other mention of restrictions, only to have customers come in and be told that they must purchase a 2-liter bottle of Pepsi for $32.99 to get the $.49 t-bone price.

Think of it this way if they would have paid out as the flyer stated then everyone would have went home and said how good it was that the track did that which would have encouraged more racers to attend future races there but what did they think was gonna happen by making the decision that they made besides saving some money which in the end I bet will cost them some racers in the future.
I thought the track surface was great as usual when I am there.I also thought they were pushing us through a little faster than needed,don't think my fan and waterpump was off for more then a couple minutes all day between runs.I also thought that maybe they should have tried a low cost gamblers race sunday evening beings they were done so early,I had to go to bed early because I ran out of beer.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Obvious:
I'll probably get ripped 4 this but.....
I have always wondered Y the payout, even on a reg race day didn't start at a certain level and increase if the car count went past a certain number? I always thought this would be a carrot hanging out there to encourage cars to come out and race even if they are not in the points.
Friday nite looks like another small turn-out for the PPM. Let's hope its only temp.
Obviously .....

Two of the tracks I use to race at in NY pay according to car count...unfortunately it hasn't helped to increase car count. Just a few years ago Dunn Tire would get close to 300 cars on a Friday night....and NYIRP had as many as 600 for thier 1/8 Mile Nationals event. Folks..people are parking thier cars...it's a fact. Am I happy they changed the purse...ofcourse not...But realistically if we don't show up the purses will continue to get lower. The cost of EMT...insurance...and electric has gone up quite a bit in the last ten years. The tracks can't take all of the hit without adjustments..and unfortunately we are the receivers. I admit I did not sign up for points this year at PRP...I had intended to but loosing the motor at the Div. in May closed that deal for me. I will have to pick and choose my racing this year so unlike some I will be looking for the best payout...even if the entry is higher..

Tripple nickel,
Greg Miller announced at the drivers meeting that the payouts were produced with a minimun of 75 cars in mind. No, you will not find it in writing..........sort of like the guaranteed purse on Dragway 42s site with $1000 dollars beside it. Oh by the way in small print there has to be a minimal car count or its pro rated....and it might be a combo. Good advertising skills...well sort of. Remember the full purse was payed FRI, SAT, I raced for the $5000 Sunday and ok mondays pay was a little skinny. Was it wrong..maybe but I think the guy worked his rear off to bring a big money race to his track. Hats off to Greg.
just my opinion
LJ

Think of it this way if they would have paid out as the flyer stated then everyone would have went home and said how good it was that the track did that which would have encouraged more racers to attend future races there but what did they think was gonna happen by making the decision that they made besides saving some money which in the end I bet will cost them some racers in the future.


BINGO, JED'S A MILLIONAIRE

One of the things I found apalling when I went up on Sunday was the lack of car count. I must say I was surprised, although I had been told by some of the guys I race with that the turnout was thin.

I love the place, I grew up there. I am smart enough to know that any business cannot take a bath like that indefinitely and stay in business. It can't happen. That is the fact.

Greg did the only thing he could do in cutting the payout. He had too. And, despite common thinking, it is not unique to PRP. It's been happening everywhere, I've seen it a thousand times. They painted themselves into a corner, but they really had no choice. So, that's that.

But, let's look at the facts. PRP had 110 cars and a couple of spectators. The Beaver had over 400 (I'm told they ran out of pit space), and hundreds of spectators. Now, you all can hold your breath until you turn blue, you can take a tantrum, you can talk about how misguided everyone else is. It doesn't matter. The facts are what they are. Period.

Why? What is everyone else doing that PRP is not? You've got to objectively analyze it.

First, BSD had a lot of different stuff, and different eliminators going on, and some different shows; fast street cars, nostalgia cars, Pro Stick, Jet cars. PRP had a smaller show, one night, and some big entry / big payout races. BSD had something for everyone, PRP had an event that catered to the "hitters" of bracket racing....those that look at this as a way to make money. Which one worked? You make the call. Again, it doesn't matter how misguided you think the racers who went to BSD were, it doesn't really matter what anybody thinks. It matters that one venue worked, and always seems to, and another venue did not, and never seems to. Draw from that whatever conclusion you wish, but the bottom line is the results.

How many posters on this site stated the reason they raced elsewhere, or not at all was the cost of entry. Again, you can crunch the numbers all you like...you can justify the big bucks all you like....but the fact is that they didn't come. Period.

PRP has a couple of perceptions about it, that although I don't necessarily agree with, seems to be the train of thought from racers that we race with that race elsewhere. Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but perception is reality.

One of the perceptions is that the track caters to a select group of semi-professional bracket guys, and is not interested in much else. The perception is that although other venues are tried, on occasion, management's heart isn't in it and it pretty much gets lip service. Again, I really don't agree with it, but again, perception is reality.

PRP also has the reputation of dragging things out. Last year's Halloween race fiasco did a lot of damage to the track's reputation. They've got to figure out a way to speed things up. Not too many folks want to be at the track from 1PM on Saturday until 1AM on Sunday morning, week after week. I have my own ideas, and others on here have also posted some good ideas. What changes have to be made can be made by management, but something has to be done.

My own opinion is this: run some races with no buy backs, a lower entry fee, and even a lower payout to make up for it if need be. I really think you'd be surprised at the turnout. You might tick off a regular who stays home, but you may just pick up someone who would not have come. Push the cars through quicker, take a calculator and figure out how many cars are in the pits, and how many have to go down the track in an hour to finish up in a certain amount of time. Of course, unforeseen circumstances are always going to pop up, and you have to accept that. But, you've got to get into the habit of pushing things along.

Look, my head is not into regular bracket racing anymore. I think it's great, but it's not my thing. But, I still love the track, and I find the find the whole discussion here, the bickering and infighting alarming. I don't want to see the track disappear.

Other minds are going to have to figure this out and get a handle on it. Please don't misunderstand me.....I do not state what I see to bash anyone, or to put the badmouth on anyone. Greg works hard, they all do. But results are what the world runs on.

My observations are just that, observations. For what it's worth, that is what I see and hear.

Greg - you are still my hero....
and are Tony and Turk BOTH gay?
Just Joan