In the class I race at my 'home' track, there's one racer who seems to like to 'sandbag' regularly.

He uses a transbrake and has a pretty good average reaction time. He's got the horsepower to the have the luxury of chasing the vast majority of his opponents. And he knows how to drive the finish line.

It seems that his strategy is to fudge on his dial-in and rely on his good RTs and faster car to pass his opponent and feather the throttle.

I noted one day in time trials that he could run about a 10.35; but when I had to race him in the first round, I saw that he dialed a 10.47.

So, I dialed up about 4 hundreths, knowing full well I'd have to lose that extra ET at the top end of the track.

When we raced, he pulled just ahead of me as I expected and stayed there. I dumped him at the stripe and was successful at pushing him into a breakout.

This has happened twice now. We had to race again last weekend, and he waited until the very last moment to put up his dial-in, ostensibly so I couldn't figure him out. His dial-in board was in the rear, side window where he could not reach it from the driver's seat to change it.

Okay, fine. So I left off the last digit of my own dial-in. After we were seated in our cars, I wrote the last digit then on the inside of my window.

Unfortunately, I lost that round due to a bone-headed finish line driving error, but I could have had him again.

If he hasn't figured out yet that I have figured him out, I'm wondering how he'll counter my counter-strategy. ;^)

How do you normally dial? Hold anything, dial it honest?

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckT:
How do you normally dial? Hold anything, dial it honest?

I normally dial pretty honest. I'll estimate what I think my truck will run based on time trials and historical data, then dial down about a hundreth of a second from that to help guard against a breakout.

If I'm being chased by a car with much more MPH, I'm likely to dial down an additional hundreth or two and run it out the back door because I'm not very good at finish-line driving when I'm being chased. Don't know if I'll ever master that art.....

At my track too there are perhaps 4 or so racers who run in the 9's and 10's, always seem to cut .02 or .03 lights (no box even)and always seem to run no more than .01 off-dial. If they do break out, it's always a double breakout and they break out less than their opponents.

If I have to face one of them about the only chance I have there is to dial up by perhaps .04 second or so, then brake right before the finish line, letting them have the stripe. All the while praying that they're on a breakout pass and that I'm not giving them time to lift.

So far, the strategy has not yet worked for me as none had been a breakout pass...... ;^)

Try spot dropping?

Good for you to figure that out, and good for you that he doesn't. I would be sticking to him in the stagging lane hoping to get him first round everytime.

quote:

Originally posted by kazman:
Try spot dropping?

I'm not sure that that is, kazman; please, clue me in.

quote:

Originally posted by 1leg:
Good for you to figure that out, and good for you that he doesn't. I would be sticking to him in the stagging lane hoping to get him first round everytime.

Thanks, 1leg. At my 'home' track however racers are usually 'laddered' by the computer, and you know beforehand who you are going to race.

Qualification order is determined by how close you can get to a dial-in time (We dial-in for time trials even, but get a heads-up start)without running under that dial-in.
An order of precedence then is determined; the driver who runs the closest to his dial-in becomes the #1 qualifier. The #2 qualifier is the driver who ran the second closest and so on down the line.

With an odd number of entries; the #1 qualifier gets a 'laddered bye' in the first round.
Lane choice, BTW, goes to the driver who qualifies higher.

I've raced at some tracks where you always get 'bottle-capped'; and at some you race who you park next to in the staging lanes. I think too at some tracks you race whoever the staging director feels like pairing you with, lol.

quote:

Originally posted by Bad Nusz:

quote:

Originally posted by kazman:
Try spot dropping?

I'm not sure that that is, kazman; please, clue me in.

This was given to me by Bud McNasby in his school. It's basically dialing hard and running it out with a twist. Find a fixed object just after the 1000 foot marker. A light pole, break in the side barrier, a billboard what ever. When your right or left shoulder is on that mark you lift off the gas and get back on 5 times. Umpa, umpa, umpa umpa, umpa. Last umpa you get on the gas and run it out. Your opponent may react to the first or second ump but will be lost on what your doing. First time shot run it out. Second time shot you spot drop and do the umpa thing. Use you 1000 foot to calculate of what you would of run flat out. Figure out what your scrubbed doing the umpa. Say you scrubbed .07. Eliminations you can figure what you should run then dial .07 faster. Do the umpa thing and drop spot to dead on. Look for your drop spot marker, umpa, then run it out. Makes driving the stripe easier.

Do what you feel comfortable with, always, in terms of dialing.

In the lines of what Kazman said, there are plenty of ways to hit your dial in. And, food for thought, what happens to you if you're late on the tree, or if you spin? Your opponent should be plenty ahead of you at the finish line if he has a better RT and hooks. Now your only option is to bail once he passes you. Having some numbers in your pocket changes the finish line look. You still have to get rid of what you're holding, but you have another option to help you win the round.

That's an interesting way to pair. How many cars in round 1 on average?

This was given to me by Bud McNasby in his school. It's basically dialing hard and running it out with a twist. Find a fixed object just after the 1000 foot marker. A light pole, break in the side barrier, a billboard what ever. When your right or left shoulder is on that mark you lift off the gas and get back on 5 times. Umpa, umpa, umpa umpa, umpa. Last umpa you get on the gas and run it out. Your opponent may react to the first or second ump but will be lost on what your doing. First time shot run it out. Second time shot you spot drop and do the umpa thing. Use you 1000 foot to calculate of what you would of run flat out. Figure out what your scrubbed doing the umpa. Say you scrubbed .07. Eliminations you can figure what you should run then dial .07 faster. Do the umpa thing and drop spot to dead on. Look for your drop spot marker, umpa, then run it out. Makes driving the stripe easier.[/QUOTE]

That's a great tip, kazman; thank you much. Another technique that's likely to come in handy sometime.
I'm familiar with using figuring out 1000-foot split time and using it to estimate one's actual ET, after lifting or braking on a pass. And I never lift until I get past the 1000-foot mark.

I've thought too about trying to figure out how much ET I can scrub off for each time I lift off the throttle and mash it again, but it never occurred to me to do it several times in succession.

I can see where the technique might mess with an opponent; I've fallen for it a couple of times when my opponent passed me, then lifted too much and got behind me again. Like a dummy I thought something was up and lifted a little myself, and got passed again. Sigh.

What I like about the technique you suggest here is that it seems that one can try to sucker a faster opponent into a breakout, but not necessarily let him have the stripe.

I went to Scotty Richards' school several years ago, and I don't recall him mentioning that technique. But I was a fairly new racer at the time and perhaps didn't have enough racing experience to ask the right questions.

Thanks again,
T.

quote:

Originally posted by ChuckT:
Do what you feel comfortable with, always, in terms of dialing.

In the lines of what Kazman said, there are plenty of ways to hit your dial in. And, food for thought, what happens to you if you're late on the tree, or if you spin? Your opponent should be plenty ahead of you at the finish line if he has a better RT and hooks. Now your only option is to bail once he passes you. Having some numbers in your pocket changes the finish line look. You still have to get rid of what you're holding, but you have another option to help you win the round.

That's an interesting way to pair. How many cars in round 1 on average?

Thank you too, ChuckT. Would you describe please any of the other ways to hit one's dial-in? I know I should probably already know them by now, but....

Occasionally I am indeed late at the tree, or I spin. And I guess the consequences are the same as when I 'dial honest', heheh.
Compared to the top racers at my track, who I must race on occasion, I'm always late at the tree, lol.

As a matter of course, I do dump my opponent near the finish line if I cannot take the stripe, and I occasionally win that way.

Let's see; I race in No Box Shootout on Saturday evenings and we typically have about 40 entries.
However, on Memorial Day and Labor Day weekends, and occasionally on Independence Day, when there is three full days of racing scheduled, the staging lanes can fill with perhaps 80 or more cars. But then we will invariably get 'bottle-capped'.

On Sundays I race in Pro Trophy, sortof an intermediate class. There we've got usually about 20 contestants, but again that can be about double on three-day events, where it's worthwhile for some racers to travel further and race with us.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bad Nusz,

quote:

Originally posted by kazman:

quote:

Originally posted by Bad Nusz:

quote:

Originally posted by kazman:
Try spot dropping?

I'm not sure that that is, kazman; please, clue me in.

This was given to me by Bud McNasby in his school. It's basically dialing hard and running it out with a twist. Find a fixed object just after the 1000 foot marker. A light pole, break in the side barrier, a billboard what ever. When your right or left shoulder is on that mark you lift off the gas and get back on 5 times. Umpa, umpa, umpa umpa, umpa. Last umpa you get on the gas and run it out. Your opponent may react to the first or second ump but will be lost on what your doing. First time shot run it out. Second time shot you spot drop and do the umpa thing. Use you 1000 foot to calculate of what you would of run flat out. Figure out what your scrubbed doing the umpa. Say you scrubbed .07. Eliminations you can figure what you should run then dial .07 faster. Do the umpa thing and drop spot to dead on. Look for your drop spot marker, umpa, then run it out. Makes driving the stripe easier.

I follow what you're saying, but don't you mean to dial 7 hundredths of a second slower than what you think you can run? Otherwise now you'd end up going 14 hundredths over your dial in.

Incorrect way: Run 7.00 flat out
Run 7.07 doing the pedal whomps
Dial 6.93 and now end up going 7.07 with the pedal whomps.

Correct way: Run 7.00 flat out
Run 7.07 doing the pedal whomps
Dial 7.07 and go 7.07 for a dead on the dial time slip.

I'm with your math Brian!

Now, that is all useless to me, since I have been anywhere from .001 to .015 red second round every time I have been out!

Damn, I have screwed the pooch footbraking, trans braking on a Pro Tree, and Top Bulbing. I decided to take a break once again and bought some new guns to play with!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Beck:
I'm with your math Brian!

Now, that is all useless to me, since I have been anywhere from .001 to .015 red second round every time I have been out!

Damn, I have screwed the pooch footbraking, trans braking on a Pro Tree, and Top Bulbing. I decided to take a break once again and bought some new guns to play with!

Its called black powder therapy.

Bad Nusz – Here are some things you might consider to help improve your program.

First: You said your main competitor has good consistent reaction times. This is the most important part of the race – Work on improving your reaction times so you have the advantage at the start. Because it will give you more room at the big end making it easier to win.

Second: If you dial down, you are giving the guy in the other lane more room to get inside of you and all his holding and games work better for him. After getting good on the tree (or at the same time) work on making your car consistent.

Third: If (when) your car is consistent and you can trust it, then you can work on a spot drop. In time trials, or testing, if your car is predictable on the first run, then chop the throttle at the MPH cone and see how much time you lose. Now you have a reliable dump. If you lose .03, then against guys that hold you can dial up .03 and push them out. That is just one strategy.

Four: One big mistake guys make is dumping at the strip if they are confident in their lights and their car is consistent - If you think you hit the tree, and your car is consistent that day, when a guys runs up on you and puts a wheel on your early, then he is probably holding a bunch, so don’t dump. If you dump, again you are giving him more room to get inside of you, and he is most likely expecting you to dump and he will try to dump with you. So run it out the back and make him beat your good light and consistent car. If he goes out the back with you, odds are he will run out or he will get scared and dump you. If you are running the number, you win.


Five: If you develop a plan in the lanes, stick to it on the track unless there is an obvious big gap at the big end in your favor. Don’t try to change up plans halfway down the track. Work your plan and make the other guy make the mistake. If you change your plan, you will never know how good it worked, or didn’t, and what you need to change in the future.

I could go on forever, but the above is a good place to start.

Great tips, Quick Dawg; thank you. It's been awhile since my original post and I've instituted a few of those hints, but I'm grateful nonetheless.

There are 'lurkers' here I'm sure, who maybe know even less than I who benefit too.

Lol, I am reminded of maybe three rounds I lost in the past year or so, where my faster opponent got ahead of me, then lifted and I took the lead back.
But then I had lifted as we were close to the stripe, and I was trying to dump him. So he got back ahead of me. Stuff happens just that quick.
I talked to two of the drivers afterwards and they admitted that they messed up and back-pedaled too much after they passed me. But alas; they screwed up, then I screwed up and gave them the win.

Lol, unless they were counting on me to lift after they passed me...... ;^)

Lately however I've gotten my truck to run far, far more consistently, since I've corrected or partially corrected some traction issues.
I can trust it much, much more to run the number, and if I break out it's usually not more than .01 second.

On test and tune passes, I've learned that if I take my foot off the accelerator at the top end and floor it right away, I can add a little over .01 second to my ET. Good to know if I'm being chased and need to drive the finish line.

Cheers!
Troy

Good example of how being "predictable" can sometimes bite you.