I have a friend with an S-10 truck running mid 6.30s off the foot now that he just converted to alcohol. 1.80 gearset and new MT slicks w/8.50 lbs air. 2400lb truck and it is hitting the tire really hard now, bouncing back and spinning before hooking for good and then all is okay. He only has single adj. shocks on the rear and tightening makes it worse.
To me it looks like he needs to take some hit out of it. Would you move the front down to do that? I've never messed with ladder bars before but making it squat to me seems the right move. Thoughts?
CurtisThis message has been edited. Last edited by: CURTIS REED,
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 18, 2019, 07:05 AM
rradracer
move the front of ladder bar down and or lower rear ride height down
March 18, 2019, 10:25 AM
rs72z
Double adjustable shocks would be a big help. Although we ran single on a s10 ladder bar going 6.30's to low 40's but that was off the transbrake. And yes front of bar down.
March 18, 2019, 11:05 AM
CURTIS REED
Thanks guys. I agree he needs doubles but I'm not sure he will spend the money right now.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 20, 2019, 08:22 AM
dragstermike
My brother runs ladder bars on his car. He was having the same trouble over the weekend and went from 4600 on launch to 3200 and it seemed to calm it down.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 20, 2019, 09:34 AM
TomR
No front end travel, 2" maybe. How tight are the front shocks? Hard to make the back end work of the front end is fighting it.
72 Nova "Hooptie"
March 20, 2019, 10:57 AM
CURTIS REED
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer: No front end travel, 2" maybe. How tight are the front shocks? Hard to make the back end work of the front end is fighting it.
Tom, like many chassis cars it probably doesn't have a lot of shock travel up front. The shocks I believe were set mid way on the extension settings. I am just beginning to help him with this truck so I will be doing some checking on things.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 20, 2019, 11:07 AM
TomR
quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer: No front end travel, 2" maybe. How tight are the front shocks? Hard to make the back end work of the front end is fighting it.
Tom, like many chassis cars it probably doesn't have a lot of shock travel up front. The shocks I believe were set mid way on the extension settings. I am just beginning to help him with this truck so I will be doing some checking on things.
I would think, with a long wheel base truck, it would need as much travel as possible to plant the tire. If it were 5.30s, not so much but 6.30's is gonna need a little help from the front end. If you can't get more travel, then try loosening the front extention all the way. At least thats were I would start with it.
72 Nova "Hooptie"
March 20, 2019, 06:03 PM
HR3377
Have you tried going up on air pressure, My Dad has a high 6 teen to mid 6.2x S-10 with almost no front travel 1" or less with ladder bars, can't say where what hole they are in as its in Florida now, but the tach replays great and will repeat 60's like mad with single adj on rear. He runs 11.5-12psi on a 29-10.5W.
March 28, 2019, 12:19 PM
Mike Rietow
At the "hit" it's bouncing? What fundamentally could cause it to bounce at the hit? When fundamentally at the hit the tire is being planted. I could see it planting the tire too hard crushing the sidewall. That would be shaking the tire as a result of flattening it and getting too much traction as the shaft in the main body of the shock changes direction. I don't think what you're describing is shake though.I think what you're describing calls for the pickup point to be raised. Then tighten the single adjustable you have in play,up. Because the fundamental is, if you tighten damping and it doesn't respond positively, says the pickup point is too low.
March 28, 2019, 12:41 PM
CURTIS REED
quote:
Originally posted by HR3377: Have you tried going up on air pressure, My Dad has a high 6 teen to mid 6.2x S-10 with almost no front travel 1" or less with ladder bars, can't say where what hole they are in as its in Florida now, but the tach replays great and will repeat 60's like mad with single adj on rear. He runs 11.5-12psi on a 29-10.5W.
That part I suggested but he is resistant because he said it makes him prone to redlight.
If we get to race Saturday I will post an update. He dropped the ladder bars, loosened the front shocks on extension and loosened the back shocks. We will see.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 29, 2019, 02:47 PM
nomad
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow: At the "hit" it's bouncing? What fundamentally could cause it to bounce at the hit? When fundamentally at the hit the tire is being planted. I could see it planting the tire too hard crushing the sidewall. That would be shaking the tire as a result of flattening it and getting too much traction as the shaft in the main body of the shock changes direction. I don't think what you're describing is shake though.I think what you're describing calls for the pickup point to be raised. Then tighten the single adjustable you have in play,up. Because the fundamental is, if you tighten damping and it doesn't respond positively, says the pickup point is too low.
Mike is right. The ladder bar needs to be raised. My ride is a ladder bar car that runs 5.60s. It was doing just what the vid shows. What helped was raising the ladder bar one hole and working the front shocks first, then I worked the rear. Then I raised the rear tire pressure. Problem solved.
Tim McAmis has a four segment video on shocks. I must have watched that ten times. Watch them you'll learn a lot.
nomad Bruce Guertin
Easily distracted by bright shiny objects.
Wife says I'm a new adventure every day.
Call Automotive Performance Engines for all your complete engine building, dyno service needs 863-967-8781
March 29, 2019, 06:10 PM
RacerVX54
Front end is wayyyy to tight to start with. I don't care what shock you put on the back until you loosen the front up its pissing in the wind
"Just Shut Up and Race"
Brian Martin Martin Racing 5.66 @121.55
March 29, 2019, 06:48 PM
CURTIS REED
quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54: Front end is wayyyy to tight to start with. I don't care what shock you put on the back until you loosen the front up its pissing in the wind
I agree. If we don’t get canceled tomorrow I will know more. He is supposed to loosen the front.
____________________________ 2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 29, 2019, 08:34 PM
RacerVX54
Loosen it alot
"Just Shut Up and Race"
Brian Martin Martin Racing 5.66 @121.55
March 30, 2019, 11:33 AM
Mike Rietow
quote:
Originally posted by nomad:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow: At the "hit" it's bouncing? What fundamentally could cause it to bounce at the hit? When fundamentally at the hit the tire is being planted. I could see it planting the tire too hard crushing the sidewall. That would be shaking the tire as a result of flattening it and getting too much traction as the shaft in the main body of the shock changes direction. I don't think what you're describing is shake though.I think what you're describing calls for the pickup point to be raised. Then tighten the single adjustable you have in play,up. Because the fundamental is, if you tighten damping and it doesn't respond positively, says the pickup point is too low.
Mike is right. The ladder bar needs to be raised. My ride is a ladder bar car that runs 5.60s. It was doing just what the vid shows. What helped was raising the ladder bar one hole and working the front shocks first, then I worked the rear. Then I raised the rear tire pressure. Problem solved.
Tim McAmis has a four segment video on shocks. I must have watched that ten times. Watch them you'll learn a lot.
I missed the video until you mentioned it. But yeah if you pause and start and pause-start the video, it's like watching it in slow-mow. As I suspected according to the fundamentals, the bar is too low. The tire winds up before any weight transfer, you can see the front end is not tight when the tire unwinds and it hops, as evidence.
The hop can be a positive if you have a quality repeatable damper/shock for control, because it is free energy (tire unwinding getting up on the tire), if the hop occurs AFTER weight transfer (front end extending, as evidence). Here's an example of how that works 1.28 60ft N/A 3250pds 10x28 tire sbc. All steel street car with ladder bars, basically.
