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Non pro internal vs external t-brake
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted
Is one better than the other as far as consistency and longevity?
I'm leaning towards an iron body after reading about issues with billets.
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
posted Hide Post
I like a JW fast brake (iron) for 370 pro tree racing.

Coan slow bracket brake (iron) for Super Pro racing.

No matter what you get (brand), if it comes with heavy reverse piston springs, install at least half of em minimum, for pressure drop.


https://youtu.be/FZ6zwnyDwUg

http://ottm.store

https://youtu.be/I8QWEaqeFRw

1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8816 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
I like a JW fast brake (iron) for 370 pro tree racing.

Coan slow bracket brake (iron) for Super Pro racing.

No matter what you get (brand), if it comes with heavy reverse piston springs, install at least half of em minimum, for pressure drop.

But how do you feel about internal vs external? I should've pointed out that this is for a 400.
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
posted Hide Post
I have a Lamb Components external trans brake I would make someone a smoking deal on. But it is for a glide.


Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
 
Posts: 5152 | Location: stuck in the middle with you! | Registered: March 11, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
I like a JW fast brake (iron) for 370 pro tree racing.

Coan slow bracket brake (iron) for Super Pro racing.

No matter what you get (brand), if it comes with heavy reverse piston springs, install at least half of em minimum, for pressure drop.


But how do you feel about internal vs external? I should've pointed out that this is for a 400.


2.75 low gear and a trans brake? I wouldn't wanna even begin to suggest I'd know a decent approach.

If I did go down that road I'd want a Griner,, I think Griner is now a Coan product. Call Coan.


https://youtu.be/FZ6zwnyDwUg

http://ottm.store

https://youtu.be/I8QWEaqeFRw

1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8816 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
I have ATD 1+2 th400 for over 4 years. I only use 2nd gear launch and it’s been perfect in both Box and No-Box racing. Using TES 295 fluid. I do Not Pro Tree race so don’t have an opinion on this.

ATD
 
Posts: 1986 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of Fabman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
I like a JW fast brake (iron) for 370 pro tree racing.

Coan slow bracket brake (iron) for Super Pro racing.

No matter what you get (brand), if it comes with heavy reverse piston springs, install at least half of em minimum, for pressure drop.


But how do you feel about internal vs external? I should've pointed out that this is for a 400.


2.75 low gear and a trans brake? I wouldn't wanna even begin to suggest I'd know a decent approach.

If I did go down that road I'd want a Griner,, I think Griner is now a Coan product. Call Coan.


The Griner design th400 transbrake valve body is now being produced and sold by Extreme Automatics.
 
Posts: 168 | Location: USA | Registered: August 27, 2022Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Rietow:
I like a JW fast brake (iron) for 370 pro tree racing.

Coan slow bracket brake (iron) for Super Pro racing.

No matter what you get (brand), if it comes with heavy reverse piston springs, install at least half of em minimum, for pressure drop.


But how do you feel about internal vs external? I should've pointed out that this is for a 400.


2.75 low gear and a trans brake? I wouldn't wanna even begin to suggest I'd know a decent approach.

If I did go down that road I'd want a Griner,, I think Griner is now a Coan product. Call Coan.

2.48 first gear Mike
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
I have ATD 1+2 th400 for over 4 years. I only use 2nd gear launch and it’s been perfect in both Box and No-Box racing. Using TES 295 fluid. I do Not Pro Tree race so don’t have an opinion on this.

ATD

Looks like this isn't currently available. Looks like this Hipster type is an external solenoid, correct?
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
with the Th400 iron vs. billet shouldn't be much of a concern.

1. external brake the TB valve rides on the case, not the VB.
2. almost all if not all internal brake VBs are made from billet aluminum.
3. a 400 TB VB really just redirects fluid aside from the manual valve moving inside it. As long as there are no leaks with any of the passages, you're good to go. Which is just as likely if not more likely to be am issue with a modified iron VB vs. a billet one.


------------------------------------------
killer of MT82s
Converter Guy
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Deland | Registered: December 09, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
I have ATD 1+2 th400 for over 4 years. I only use 2nd gear launch and it’s been perfect in both Box and No-Box racing. Using TES 295 fluid. I do Not Pro Tree race so don’t have an opinion on this.

ATD

Looks like this isn't currently available. Looks like this Hipster type is an external solenoid, correct?


I believe ATD doesn’t update their website often. Said not available when I purchased. I live 15 miles away and had them do the install and freshen the trans. Took 2 weeks, but they are busy like everyone. Call them.

The solenoid is external and easy to quickly service in the event of a failure. Their solenoid used a different piston pin length from the TCI solenoid in the one prior, and they repined the TCI solenoid for free as my spare.

This ATD is advertised as a Pro Brake and I believe it’s faster than the TCI I had prior. I launch in 2nd gear now with a 1.40 ratio and am using the same launch rpm for no-box and very close to same delay settings in box as when I launched in 1st with 2.10 gear and the old brake. 2.10/1.40 planetary.
 
Posts: 1986 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
I have ATD 1+2 th400 for over 4 years. I only use 2nd gear launch and it’s been perfect in both Box and No-Box racing. Using TES 295 fluid. I do Not Pro Tree race so don’t have an opinion on this.


ATD

Looks like this isn't currently available. Looks like this Hipster type is an external solenoid, correct?


I believe ATD doesn’t update their website often. Said not available when I purchased. I live 15 miles away and had them do the install and freshen the trans. Took 2 weeks, but they are busy like everyone. Call them.

The solenoid is external and easy to quickly service in the event of a failure. Their solenoid used a different piston pin length from the TCI solenoid in the one prior, and they repined the TCI solenoid for free as my spare.

This ATD is advertised as a Pro Brake and I believe it’s faster than the TCI I had prior. I launch in 2nd gear now with a 1.40 ratio and am using the same launch rpm for no-box and very close to same delay settings in box as when I launched in 1st with 2.10 gear and the old brake. 2.10/1.40 planetary.

I'm surprised you didn't choose a glide if you leave almost exclusively in 2nd gear. I think having them install their vb is the way to go but I'm committed to the shop that currently has the trans.
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1.Slow_fivE.0:
with the Th400 iron vs. billet shouldn't be much of a concern.

1. external brake the TB valve rides on the case, not the VB.
2. almost all if not all internal brake VBs are made from billet aluminum.
3. a 400 TB VB really just redirects fluid aside from the manual valve moving inside it. As long as there are no leaks with any of the passages, you're good to go. Which is just as likely if not more likely to be am issue with a modified iron VB vs. a billet one.

Yes, this trans builder points to the fact that the external TB valve rides on the case, in the same bore as the oem modulator valve, can cause fluid to leak around the TB valve. I asked if there were any iron internal TB's and he said ATI has one that is very consistent, but not the quickest. If I continue to deep stage when pro tree racing, I'd be okay with that scenario.
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
posted Hide Post
I don't know what Pro Tree racing you are talking about but in any NHRA category that runs a Pro Tree Deep staging is not allowed and it's a .400 tree in S/G (9.90) and a.500 tree in S/ST (10.90)

I used to use an internal solenoid brake built by Select Performance and was probably the ATI valve body....I think I still have one of those VB's under a bench somewhere....The wire to power the internal solenoid was connected outside the case...I won a national even using one of those in S/G...I don't believe it was as fast releasing as the external solenoid brakes like an ATD...(Hipster)....

Zero knowledge about any T-400 brakes or transmissions......but there is no problems running an external solenoid brake in a P/G....that's what everyone uses...leakage? It gets a seal or gasket...I used oil plug drain washers....It's not sealing pressurized ATF....
 
Posts: 2535 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
I don't know what Pro Tree racing you are talking about but in any NHRA category that runs a Pro Tree Deep staging is not allowed and it's a .400 tree in S/G (9.90) and a.500 tree in S/ST (10.90)

I used to use an internal solenoid brake built by Select Performance and was probably the ATI valve body....I think I still have one of those VB's under a bench somewhere....The wire to power the internal solenoid was connected outside the case...I won a national even using one of those in S/G...I don't believe it was as fast releasing as the external solenoid brakes like an ATD...(Hipster)....

Zero knowledge about any T-400 brakes or transmissions......but there is no problems running an external solenoid brake in a P/G....that's what everyone uses...leakage? It gets a seal or gasket...I used oil plug drain washers....It's not sealing pressurized ATF....

The pro tree stuff I'm talking about is local 1/8 mile 6.50 index. Were you using a 400 in SG with the Select/ATI brake?
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
ATI is in your backyard. Consider using one of their aluminum th400 VB. Internal solenoid models available that are listed as “wicked quick” if that’s what you think you need. I believe the large majority of high quality aftermarket VB are aluminum for the th400. My experience with aluminum th400 VB has been excellent.

Want more web opinions. Post your question to YB transmission forum.
 
Posts: 1986 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ron Gusack:
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
I don't know what Pro Tree racing you are talking about but in any NHRA category that runs a Pro Tree Deep staging is not allowed and it's a .400 tree in S/G (9.90) and a.500 tree in S/ST (10.90)

I used to use an internal solenoid brake built by Select Performance and was probably the ATI valve body....I think I still have one of those VB's under a bench somewhere....The wire to power the internal solenoid was connected outside the case...I won a national even using one of those in S/G...I don't believe it was as fast releasing as the external solenoid brakes like an ATD...(Hipster)....

Zero knowledge about any T-400 brakes or transmissions......but there is no problems running an external solenoid brake in a P/G....that's what everyone uses...leakage? It gets a seal or gasket...I used oil plug drain washers....It's not sealing pressurized ATF....

The pro tree stuff I'm talking about is local 1/8 mile 6.50 index. Were you using a 400 in SG with the Select/ATI brake?


NO T-400.....Powerglide....

The only car I ever drove that had a T-400 was near impossible to bracket race successfully.....a friends car
Strut front end, '69 Camaro with a BB......No traction...No hook....also not air or electric shifted....

Raced it maybe 2 times and ripped the T-400 out and put my own P/G in it....Won Super ET with it after that....9.20-9.30 ET's
 
Posts: 2535 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
posted Hide Post
This^^^

Having footbrake raced with a turbo400 for nearly 30 years, when the decision was made to compete in top bulb and Super Street, it was a no brainer to move to glide and we never looked backed. Further, with all the issues the OP has had with his turbo400, it begs the question… why keep going down that road?

As for rumored consistency issues with billet valve bodies, none with the BTE aluminum valve bodies in both my glides/cars.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 12031 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
posted Hide Post
I can say from first hand experience...

A Coan aluminum valve body that I bought and installed was trouble right out of the box before I even installed it.

The spool valve was tight in the hole in the VB and I spent a lot of time massaging the hole and the valve as best as I could

I called Coan and complained....wanted to let them know of the problem

Installed it in trans after I thought I had it working ok

Backed car out of trailer and brake hung up and would not release....

Once trans warmed up it was ok and never a problem after that for as long as I used it....

RT's were NO faster than the VB I took out......maybe a tick slower....

Wasted a bunch of money on a unit that was a disappointment....

The billet aluminum and steel needed more clearance and I had nothing I could get all the way into the VB to hone larger...

A lot of different aluminum VB's on the market and my choice caused me a lot of grief..

I should have just sent it back !
 
Posts: 2535 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Ron Gusack
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 1320racer:
This^^^

Having footbrake raced with a turbo400 for nearly 30 years, when the decision was made to compete in top bulb and Super Street, it was a no brainer to move to glide and we never looked backed. Further, with all the issues the OP has had with his turbo400, it begs the question… why keep going down that road?

As for rumored consistency issues with billet valve bodies, none with the BTE aluminum valve bodies in both my glides/cars.

I've considered changing to a glide and there's really only 1 reason that I haven't, they just don't seem to be as much fun. I like the launch with the 2.48 low gear with my low powered bbc. I know a t-brake with some rpm would probably do the same thing, but I still run a 12 bolt, ladder bar rear. On the rare times that I've used the brake, I'm never over 3k on the limiter and the suspension is preloaded. Converting to a 9 inch is in my plans. This current problem with the 400 is the first since 1980. I wanted to be able to race with a box to compete in gamblers races and one class races.
 
Posts: 415 | Location: Maryland | Registered: January 23, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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