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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Dart 20 Degree heads - Drain back hoses?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Dart 20 Degree heads - Drain back hoses? | Login/Join |
| DRR Trophy |
Anyone running the Dart 20 degree heads have to put the oil drain back hoses from the head to the oil pan to help get the oil back to the pan? I've seen it on some big chief/duke style motors and was wondering what makes someone decide they need to drill the front of the head and add a hose to help with oil drain back to the pan. Current combo seems to smoke a little at all times, haven't made a run down the track with it yet but idling in the drive way and on the dyno seems like its pushing a little smoke out of both pipes. Broke the motor in on gasoline 12 pulls then swapped to methanol, seems to smoke a tad bit on both gas and methanol. No evidence of oil on the plug and not even really in the headers. Was wondering if this is one of the reasons guys put those drain hoses on big chief style heads. | ||
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DRR Trophy |
The biggest reason we suggest and offer drain backs on our pans is to simply get more oil back to the oil pan before it launches. During idle time, the vacuum pump is drawing air up the middle of the engine, and through some of the front and rear drain back areas not allowing as much to get back. Once the run starts, the air velocity is much higher, and that oil is hard pressed to get back to the oil pan. Drain backs prevent the oil from having to build up in the heads, make the turn over the intake side, and finally into the lifter valley. And just an FYI...the oil in the heads is hot...the valve spring cooling makes that oil about 40 to 80 degrees hotter than what is in the oil pan. Its not often that the oil in the head would ever get above the guide and draw into the intake port. Typically seals are not used, but in some set ups they are. I go back to my #1 rule of oil return...Oil Temperature. When you really have your oil at 140 to 160 at the beginning of the run (not your water temp..that has no bearing on oil) the oil will flow and return much better than 100 or 120 degree oil. Scott Hall Sales Engineer Moroso Performance scotth@moroso.com | |||
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DRR Sportsman |
Drain back hoses are a good idea on heads that due to design will hold a lot of oil before it gets high enough to return through the holes in the heads to the valley. Drain back hoses on each end allow the oil to drain back while at rest or towing back from the run to facilitate removing the covers to do a spring check or valve adjustment without making a mess running down the sides. A good size drain back on the rear of any head like a #10 will return more oil to the pan under acceleration, and that is good with a wet sump application, and it will keep a lot of oil off of the spinning crank and rods, which will create windage and foaming. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Do you need drain backs on this head, NO! Is it a bad idea to have them on any head, NO! In your case is the lack of drain backs causing smoke out the exhaust. No! Bad News The oil coming from the cam bearings and lifters that ends up on the crank is a bus load. What's added from upstairs is just a drop in the bucket if you set up the restrictors correctly compared to what's coming out of the lifters/cam. Not to mention the oil coming out of the rod bearings. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Scott that's why I warm my motor up based on oil pressure at idle in the AM! Water temp is only one piece of a good warmup! Used to have oil temp but once you know that vs oil pressure its all good. | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Can i return the oil to the fuel pump boss or does it need to return back to the pan? Where on the pan does it need to return above the oil level when full or below? | |||
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DRR Top Comp |
I am quite sure on my motor most of the oil is up on top of the block towards the end of the run. (Your mileage may vary) If I hit brakes hard at end of the run data logger is showing it uncovers pickup. Would not do that with proper oil level. Even though my bearings always look perfect I think it would be a good idea to add a drain hoses to back of heads to help. I also agree with hotter oil drains back faster as does lighter oil. When I run 20-50 I have to be careful with 10-30 it never has problems. Still I think it is best to design the oiling system so you never have problems with any weight oil. https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/ "Dunning-Kruger Effect" -a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge. Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue. 4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Curly Oil being pumped throughout the motor has to drain back but that takes time, period! So a drop in oil level in the pan is the direct result of that fact. Adding oil drain backs in the big picture is a drop in the bucket with respect to oil level in the pan at WOT at the end of the quarter mile! So for the oil getting back quicker, no brainer that when its hotter is moves faster! That's the good,,, now the bad,,, hotter and thinner oils also move away from the pickup FASTER and easier during braking! and uncover the pickup faster! So if your all worried about maintaining constant OP, get an accusump or dry sump! As long as you have good OP under WOT you are good, low OP under braking and no load is not problem. | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Top?? Wet sump or dry?? Raceless in California! | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
For you racepakers if you have the channel space consider adding an oil temp sensor... It does help with proper warm up but it can also provide advance warning of a bearing failure in the making.. If you monitor oil temp and suddenly see a spike in oil temp strong possibility that there is mechanical damage is happening...The oil temp will spike !! we saw it happen....That was before we put those -10 drain backs in the head!!! lol | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Scott @ Moroso, where should i locate the drain back hoses in the pan? Passenger side or driver side? What height? Front or rear of pan? | |||
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| DRR Trophy |
Put the drain back next to the #3 main cap on both sides of the oil pan. Its shielded from the rotating assembly and its out if the way of the starter. Scott Hall Sales Engineer Moroso Performance scotth@moroso.com | |||
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| DRR Sportsman |
Who the h ll still uses restrictors...... | |||
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| DRR S/Pro |
Top?? Wet sump or dry??[/QUOTE] Are you asking me what I run? I have a wet sump setup now. | |||
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Bracket Talk Bracket Talk Forum Tech Talk - by Abruzzi Dart 20 Degree heads - Drain back hoses?
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