Bracket Talk
Oil Pressure Problem - Need Advice
March 13, 2020, 12:34 PM
David GerardOil Pressure Problem - Need Advice
I have been running drag race engines since the early 60’. TF, Comp, and now TD.
This one has me challenged!
Aluminum Brodix Big Duke BBC. Just went through a complete major rebuild with new sleeves, cam bearings, rod and main bearings, rings, etc.
On the motor stand: 75 psi oil pressure with a drill motor. [20-50 oil]
In the car: Initially 75 psi oil pressure and then over two minutes running, it slowly drops to 25-30 psi. If you rev the engine, it goes up to about 45 psi. Oil never got above 120 degrees!
Took motor out of car checked Titan pump, inspected everything, but didn’t dissemble motor. Just checked a rod bearing and it looked like it had never been run. Normal side clearance on rods. No “stuff” in the pan, filter, etc.
Ran the same routine as above and got the same results!
We will pull the engine again and start disassembly, but I’d like some ideas on what might be wrong!
HELP!
March 13, 2020, 12:54 PM
Mike RietowAluminum blocks, I put the block in a automotive paint oven to get the block up to operating temp for clearance's to exact specifications, using a dial bore guage.
March 13, 2020, 12:58 PM
CURTIS REEDquote:
Originally posted by David Gerard:
I have been running drag race engines since the early 60’. TF, Comp, and now TD.
This one has me challenged!
Aluminum Brodix Big Duke BBC. Just went through a complete major rebuild with new sleeves, cam bearings, rod and main bearings, rings, etc.
On the motor stand: 75 psi oil pressure with a drill motor. [20-50 oil]
In the car: Initially 75 psi oil pressure and then over two minutes running, it slowly drops to 25-30 psi. If you rev the engine, it goes up to about 45 psi. Oil never got above 120 degrees!
Took motor out of car checked Titan pump, inspected everything, but didn’t dissemble motor. Just checked a rod bearing and it looked like it had never been run. Normal side clearance on rods. No “stuff” in the pan, filter, etc.
Ran the same routine as above and got the same results!
We will pull the engine again and start disassembly, but I’d like some ideas on what might be wrong!
HELP!
How about the possibility of a crack developing during the rebuild that opens up as heat in the block builds?
Curtis
____________________________
2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 13, 2020, 01:05 PM
Roger McGinnisCheck the lifter clearance. At operating temperature.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
March 13, 2020, 01:34 PM
Mike RietowTake the crank out, put the block in a automotive paint oven for twenty minutes with the main bearings in the block, caps torqued to spec. Use infared heat gun to read the temp of the block periodically, we had to put this block back in the oven several times between measuring clearances outside the oven. Take your time and look everything over real close.
Write all the clearances down, do the math to get to spec.
March 13, 2020, 02:39 PM
ETB161The bypass in your titan pump is sticking. When you fire the engine and it idles, the pressure looks fine. When you rev it, the bypass moves to bypass more oil and when it returns to idle, the bypass does not return all the way, now there is a big oil leak and the pressure drops. You may get lucky if you disassemble and clean the pump but this is just a time bomb and can happen at any time. I purchased 8 of these pumps and over time 7 out of the 8 have done this. Replace the pump and put the engine back together. Moroso 22163 works well, I have had 0 problems with these. You may need to make a spacer between the bottom of the pump and the screen if your pan is deeper than 8 1/4” deep. Good luck!
March 13, 2020, 03:31 PM
Big SteveI have 80-90 psi with my aluminum brodix block, aluminum rods and 60wt. 60-70psi going down the track. I run my clearances really wide when cold and I could only imagine what they are hot. I use the Moroso billet pump with the high pressure spring.
I would change the pump before tearing the motor apart, sounds like that's where your issue is
March 13, 2020, 04:20 PM
WooleyThe pump does sound like the cause. I have had two motors that I used 3/4 groove main bearings in that would the same thing. Changed out bearings to normal 1/2 groove bearings and problems went away. Just something else to consider.
March 13, 2020, 04:57 PM
David GerardWe have sent the pump back to the new owners of Titan after a close inspection, just to be sure. Nothing obvious at room temperature!
We run the same, just new, Bearings: Rod: Clevite CB-743HXNDK; Main: MS-829HK10 [0.001” under] as always.
March 13, 2020, 05:10 PM
Mike RietowProbably is the pump. Is Titan aware of this problem? Geesh,I'm wondering what to do with a collection of these pumps when they decide to not work?
I'd look at a made in USA Melling billet oil pump. Made in USA is the hot ticket right about now, or should be by
now.I wouldn't run it any other way but USA. These pumps are unreal nice, and not crude at all.
March 13, 2020, 05:35 PM
seabasswhat will filter was on it? did you try another filter before pulling it apart? I have seen filters do this..
J.R. Baxter
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March 13, 2020, 06:11 PM
SCDIV1Yes on the filter being a possible problem.
Had a Fram do it to me after changing oil.
Also saw another engine that failed from a Fram filter that collapsed inside.
And a Canton filter that led to problems
March 13, 2020, 06:48 PM
TD3550Same here, had a Wix act up also.Both seals on that distributor? Unless it's a front drive.
March 13, 2020, 08:17 PM
rustylast time i had the same issue it turned out to be a clearance issue between bearings and crank
honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224
March 13, 2020, 08:24 PM
rustythe way i determined which bearings were wrong,i pulled the pump and put air on the pump discharge hole.this was with motor in car and pan removed.it was obvious real quick which set were mismatched.it rained oil out of the loose bearings and only slightly out of the correct ones.
honesty is the best policy,insanity is a better deffense
1.036, 6.16@ 224
March 13, 2020, 09:00 PM
Mike Rietowquote:
Originally posted by rusty:
last time i had the same issue it turned out to be a clearance issue between bearings and crank
It could go either way Rusty eh? Just gotta look it all over real close haste makes waste, could just be the oil pump too. If it were mine it would have beautiful clearance's to run 30 wt in good conditions. Can't have similar combo's out preparing me, laying down the law.
March 14, 2020, 01:28 AM
David GerardSame rods and crank. Same bearing part numbers.
We run a System One Oil filter that has been checked each time.
Hoping that Tital finds something!
Otherwise, it's pull apart a fresh engine!
March 14, 2020, 06:30 AM
green1My builder made a jig for testing oil pumps off the motor. Would be a wise investment.
March 14, 2020, 06:53 AM
CashflowSeems to me I’ve heard of lots of issues with the Titan pumps. Moroso cast iron pumps for years with zero problems. They’re probably Melling but they work.
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
March 14, 2020, 07:33 AM
AlaskaracerI ran a Titan for years without issue. I do agree that the relief in the pump might be sticking. Simple fix, pull it, polish it and lightly polish the bore....done....
If you need support for Titan, they are no longer in existence, but you can get help here:
https://centerpointcnc.comThey took over the design and made some changes and improvements to it. They also service any titan pump and have parts available.
Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer