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I'm loosing sleep over this Lunati cam
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DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
posted
I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about it.

Have you ever suffered from this type of sleeping disorder?

It's a UDHarold design so I know it'll piss off the neighbors and hurt feelers on the dyno @7000 rpms.

11:1 468 BBC engine I'm gonna run the guts out of on the dyno. GM steel crank, 6.385 Eagle H beams, JE 13.5:1 pistons W/domes milled off, Australian billet timing chain set, Pro Comp square port cylinder heads I bought from Nickels, assembled in Tennessee with all Manley essentials.



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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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just what every bracket racer wants, a nearly 50 y/o cam design. Roll Eyes

Meanwhile this 11:1 468 with OEM cast iron oval port heads and a 4150 carb built by SCDIV1



was untouchable by similar cars with a BBC under the hood in Division 1 though everyone of them were hundreds of lbs. lighter than my 3880 lb. Chevelle and everyone of them had more of everything, cubes, carb, manifold, cam and headers. It's cam was no 1970's design, rather my lobe and event selection ground by LSM.







and a TRUE factory condition muscle car NahNahTounge

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 1320racer,


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11579 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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Same intake and cylinder heads I used on the RIPPER 496 made 710 hp 10:1 compression ratio.

The local porter Walt starts off with an oval port.

Track Warrior intake because it has the lowest flange of all 4500 BBC intakes, for use with flat hoods.




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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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The main question I need answered is if this cam has a pinned/staked on iron distributor drive gear to run a Ever Wear gear on the distributor?

Or is it a 8620 billet cam core?

Been on hold with Lunati a half hour.

I know where I can get one of these today, same question applies.

The Lunati is a month out to manufacture.




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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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11-851-9 works well also.
If you can find it.
 
Posts: 667 | Location: Bucks Co Pa | Registered: January 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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"Pay attention to the area under the curve"

By minimizing Reversion before TDC, the piston starts airflow earlier, vs earlier intake valve openings which let in more and higher pressure exhaust gases. The less reversion, the earlier airflow starts after TDC. By having a cam with lots of mid-lift and high-lift area, the valve has more time(duration) to fill the cylinder with harder-flowing air/fuel(inertia ram).
The exhaust cam has its own part to play, I'll cover that later.
This has been my intake theory for 26 years.


UDHarold


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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Harold Brookshire's Ultradyne cams had a reputation for breaking valve train parts

Nobody I knew used them in any Modified or SS engines back in the day....

Cam Dynamics.....Lunati....Crane and a few others....were the cams being used.....

Did he make some good cams? I'm sure he did but parts breakage was always a possibility....

Todays stuff is a lot more bullet proof....
 
Posts: 2469 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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SCDIV1...KNOWS!


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11579 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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On Harold’s TL2 lobe design you had to run a top notch valve train. The lobe design was hard and required inspection and replacement of components as needed.( race cam only) Also we had seen at the time that that cam came out, people tried to run them in street cars. It did not work and people had valve train issues. If memory serves me correctly the TL1 was for street use.
We also must realize that valve trains and springs have come a long way since that lobe design.
Dave
 
Posts: 94 | Location: Atlanta “Land Soft--Kill Quiet” | Registered: January 21, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of HS professor
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quote:
Harold Brookshire's Ultradyne cams had a reputation for breaking valve train parts

Nobody I knew used them in any Modified or SS engines back in the day....



I know a local NJ engine builder/legend who used to like Ultradyne cams back in the 90's in his sb and bb stuff. Always ran fast, but I'm sure they were not getting hundreds of runs out their stuff either.

As far as BB bracket/race cams go I've ran just about everything. I prefer something in the 260/270 .700" ish range but always go easy on the aggressiveness/valvetrain thus giving up a little power for longevity.
We've gone 800 runs making 750hp on gas in a 460" with ease and should have trusted my gut and went to 1000, it still looked real good at 800. Same springs and lifters for all those runs too.
Interesting side note Rich, back in the Ed Chevelle days Ed and I were both running low 10's only difference I had squareports and Ed had your ovals. I always had an easy 5-6 mph faster in the 1/4 but he obviously had the 60' covered Big Grin I always preferred the mph.

Those cams look small to me Mike, especially the 2nd choice. Of course it will run good though, it's a big block !!!!
 
Posts: 1345 | Location: Monroe twp nj | Registered: December 05, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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quote:
Originally posted by HS professor:


Those cams look small to me Mike, especially the 2nd choice. Of course it will run good though, it's a big block !!!!


Low 11:1 compression ratio, pump gas 468.

Retarded 4 degree's it'll rock with torque from 4700 to 5700 putting peak hp 6600-6700-6800 rpm.

Trust me.




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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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These have a shorter port than a 990 square port, an in between square and oval.

Excellent power around 7000 rpm.

Why we start off with an oval intake, otherwise we'd have fill in the top of the port on the intake with weld, or make the port taller on the cylinder head.




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http://ottm.store

https://youtu.be/I8QWEaqeFRw

1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by HS professor:
quote:
Harold Brookshire's Ultradyne cams had a reputation for breaking valve train parts

Nobody I knew used them in any Modified or SS engines back in the day....



I know a local NJ engine builder/legend who used to like Ultradyne cams back in the 90's in his sb and bb stuff. Always ran fast, but I'm sure they were not getting hundreds of runs out their stuff either.

As far as BB bracket/race cams go I've ran just about everything. I prefer something in the 260/270 .700" ish range but always go easy on the aggressiveness/valvetrain thus giving up a little power for longevity.
We've gone 800 runs making 750hp on gas in a 460" with ease and should have trusted my gut and went to 1000, it still looked real good at 800. Same springs and lifters for all those runs too.
Interesting side note Rich, back in the Ed Chevelle days Ed and I were both running low 10's only difference I had squareports and Ed had your ovals. I always had an easy 5-6 mph faster in the 1/4 but he obviously had the 60' covered Big Grin I always preferred the mph.

Those cams look small to me Mike, especially the 2nd choice. Of course it will run good though, it's a big block !!!!
.


Bob, Oval ports were not my choice. They were Ed’s They always ran weaker mph than rect. ports. I steered Ed to Brandywine in Pa. Felt there was not much more an oval port could do and maybe they could do a head better suited for his needs. They did a lot of work to his existing ovals and picked up some airflow with epoxy and some raising of the ports. He gained nothing on the track! I would have rather seen them do a set of rect port heads for him with epoxied intake runners… I was happy the heads they did were no faster than mine. Bruce McDowell did those heads.
 
Posts: 2469 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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I could not believe my eyes when I saw JEGS had two of these in stock.

UDHarold design

Description says rough idle... GOOD! Rougher the better!

I was on JEGS early today looking at the 663 cam I originally was looking for, I can't believe their site didn't suggest this one at that time WTF!

Perfect! Camshafts are hard to find! Try it sometime, nobody even answers the phone!

Got lucky

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,


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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
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So, here's what happened, this engine is all together with the clay Smith hydraulic roller muscle car cam.

I watch a YouTube video last night a guy does a dyno shootout/comparison between a 468 and a 496, both pump gas low compression, both solid roller cams. The 496 made 716hp AFR 315 CNC ported heads I believe, and the 468 made right at 100 hp less, I think it had AFR 265 heads.

So the guy says if you're wondering if you should spend the exra coin, there it is 100 hp difference.

Problem was the guy used a dinky cam in the 468.

This dude has probably 200-300k subs. And I just happen to have a 468 on the stand, And I just did a 496 that made 710hp, same heads and intake on the 468.

I think he was being a little misleading by 50hp. But we're gonna find out.

468

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,


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1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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quote:
Originally posted by HS professor:
Interesting side note Rich, back in the Ed Chevelle days Ed and I were both running low 10's only difference I had squareports and Ed had your ovals. I always had an easy 5-6 mph faster in the 1/4 but he obviously had the 60' covered Big Grin I always preferred the mph.

Bob, you'll run better speed for the ET every time you have too large an intake runner for the short block under it. Meanwhile, I ran a best of 10.07 at 132, typical MPH for that ET but nothing typical about doing it with a cast iron oval port 253cc head, 4150 carb, 1 3/4" tube headers in a nearly 2 ton footbrake launched ride.

That said, today oval intake ports have since proven to be the king of power/MPH from bracket engines to Pro Stock, conventional heads and spread port. FYI, a few months ago, we ran 195mph with oval port heads on my dragster Big Grin not many run that speed naturally aspirated with spread port heads no mind “conventional” heads in a “medium” aka bracket dragster.


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11579 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 434 olds
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
Harold Brookshire's Ultradyne cams had a reputation for breaking valve train parts

Nobody I knew used them in any Modified or SS engines back in the day....

Cam Dynamics.....Lunati....Crane and a few others....were the cams being used.....

Did he make some good cams? I'm sure he did but parts breakage was always a possibility....

Todays stuff is a lot more bullet proof....


Unless you have a cam ground for your specific application, you`ll never know the true performance of your engine.





Worlds Quickest And Fastest 71 Cutlass On The Planet Earth
 
Posts: 349 | Location: Oak ridge, N.J | Registered: February 09, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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Agree but you also ain’t getting there without constant testing and dyno pulls.


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

"if you guys are so broke dyck you can't buy USA made parts you need to stay the fuc at home that's the bottomline" ----Tim McAmis



 
Posts: 11579 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Mike Rietow
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SCDIV1:
Harold Brookshire's Ultradyne cams had a reputation for breaking valve train parts

Nobody I knew used them in any Modified or SS engines back in the day....

Cam Dynamics.....Lunati....Crane and a few others....were the cams being used.....

Did he make some good cams? I'm sure he did but parts breakage was always a possibility....

Todays stuff is a lot more bullet proof....


The RIPPER has a UDHarold design Bullet camshaft, best hp I've seen in these pages 23 degree sbc.

Not bragging but giving credit where it's due.


https://youtu.be/FZ6zwnyDwUg

http://ottm.store

https://youtu.be/I8QWEaqeFRw

1996, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008 Super Pro Champion Sunshine Dragstrip, Clearwater Florida
 
Posts: 8188 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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If your happy with your cams and your cars performance that's all that matters
 
Posts: 2469 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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