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HI gear clutch springs
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DRR Sportsman
Picture of SC4400
posted
So I'm freshening a glide, and my curiosity is on overdrive. Why 24 strong springs for the hi gear apply piston? Has anyone put fewer springs? It would seem that less spring pressure would allow higher apply pressure to the clutch plates? Andmaybe longer clutch life?

RIP


It's a dangerous time in America. The communists are inside the gates.
Our survival is not guaranteed.
 
Posts: 780 | Location: Lake Charles La | Registered: January 29, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Richie
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I know my tranny guy only puts 1/2 of them in ......doesn't do any harm I could speak of.
 
Posts: 246 | Location: Windsor locks Ct. | Registered: November 25, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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4400,

eliminating every 3rd spring is recommended in the "Carl" Bible. The above comment about every other spring removed is interesting, I had not considered doing so.

Thinking of the original factory design, when the driver goes wide open from high to low [passing gear] a quick high clutch release would be desirable.

In drag racing, we do not shift from high to low under acceleration. We modify the valve body for a quick, firm high clutch engagement so less spring pressure seems reasonable for our specific application.


Larry Woodfin



 
Posts: 1636 | Location: Kilgore TX | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Footloose
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I have always put all of them back in. Good question.
 
Posts: 1879 | Location: in a van down buy the river | Registered: September 07, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of SC4400
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Thanks for the replies. I'm going to try every other spring. My thinking was exactly like yours Larry.

RIP


It's a dangerous time in America. The communists are inside the gates.
Our survival is not guaranteed.
 
Posts: 780 | Location: Lake Charles La | Registered: January 29, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I wouldn't do every other. Maybe the "Carl" rule. The springs are there for return and to keep clutches released when not commanded to apply. Your PG has plenty of pressure to apply them.
 
Posts: 212 | Location: Ohio | Registered: December 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Shift timing is critical and a full set of springs helps correct overlap which these suffer from as well as reducing the spring pack from spinning in the drum during the shift.


Hutch
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Ontario Canada | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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Welcome aboard Hutch.
 
Posts: 1370 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I believe it's the every 5th one that I leave out which makes it even sets of 4 i believe. Never had a problem and can still read the clutches after many many many passes.
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Pen Argyl, PA | Registered: March 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of wideopen231
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I go by Carl Monroes thing with every third out. Been doing so for years and never had problem with clutches.


Your first mistake was thinking your opinion made a d a m n

America home of free. Brought to you by 2nd amendment.
 
Posts: 3354 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Now that you have left some springs out, try it with them all and maybe even add a new design Sonnax servo system and let me know what you think.


Hutch
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Ontario Canada | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
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Groups of 3 will quicken the shift up, but can make the shift more violent. Atleast what I have seen with my data logger.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 567 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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For ever what reason. who ever did the last bench before i purchased it, left certain springs out of the reverse clutch. Theory ???
 
Posts: 1370 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Bruce Williams
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quote:
Originally posted by Hutch:
Now that you have left some springs out, try it with them all and maybe even add a new design Sonnax servo system and let me know what you think.


Hutch

Are you speaking about the PG band apply servo that has the larger diameter piston to apply more clamp force?
Never mind. I went to the Sonnax sight and found what your talking about.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bruce Williams,


Bruce Lee Cool

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.
 
Posts: 1974 | Location: Chandler Arizona | Registered: August 11, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Trophy
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If you're smart listen to Hutch's advice, he's one of the best in the subject.
A not unusual thing on some race powerglide is a little bind in the shift, direct clutch activate before band release. If the bind gets too strong you can kiss input shaft goodbye.
Keep all direct clutch springs.
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Sweden | Registered: December 25, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Actually groups of 3 which is leaving springs out doesn't make it shift harder but mostly creates bind as Stig has referred to. Look at the data logger and study the driveshaft and G meter and you will see the differences.


Hutch
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Ontario Canada | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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quote:
Originally posted by TD3550:
For ever what reason. who ever did the last bench before i purchased it, left certain springs out of the reverse clutch. Theory ???


Probably the worst thing to do in a transbrake transmission. The heavier springs do help as it controls the pressure drop on the brake setup. Removing them can create a more sudden pressure drop and let the band slip slightly backing you out of the lights.


Hutch
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Ontario Canada | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Hutch:
Actually groups of 3 which is leaving springs out doesn't make it shift harder but mostly creates bind as Stig has referred to. Look at the data logger and study the driveshaft and G meter and you will see the differences.


Hutch



Out of curiosity I did this, don't believe mine is binding, the DS spikes UP, then comes back down as the tire grabs the DS. Yes, the G meter is going down during this, BUT, that would be expected if it is trying to knock the tire off. Don't know if this matters, but I normally only run 220-225 psi and try to run the band as loose as I can, without rocking when setting the transbrake.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 567 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Have a look at the event before the driveshaft spikes up, the part when it falls down prior to the spike. That is the area to clean up.


Hutch
 
Posts: 24 | Location: Ontario Canada | Registered: August 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
quote:
Originally posted by Hutch:
Actually groups of 3 which is leaving springs out doesn't make it shift harder but mostly creates bind as Stig has referred to. Look at the data logger and study the driveshaft and G meter and you will see the differences.

Hutch


Out of curiosity I did this, don't believe mine is binding, the DS spikes UP, then comes back down as the tire grabs the DS. Yes, the G meter is going down during this, BUT, that would be expected if it is trying to knock the tire off. Don't know if this matters, but I normally only run 220-225 psi and try to run the band as loose as I can, without rocking when setting the transbrake.


Would you mind posting a screenshot of your rpm and ds data displaying the shift? I'm curious to see someone else's data. I have all the springs in mine with the Sonnax smart-tech ratio-style servo running 180 psi of pressure.
 
Posts: 473 | Location: here | Registered: February 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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