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Alky terminator racers with 02 sensors
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DRR Pro
Picture of 00 DEAD ON
posted
I have a Alky terminator. My 02’s Are reading off the gas scale. I was told to look for 12.6-13.00. Mine are reading 11.7 an 11.8. How much do I need to lean it out to get it to 12.6-13.0????
Also on alky terminator what is the best reading for consistency? I know all motors require more or less. Just trying to figure this thing out.
#1 pump 40’s with a 86 return pill.
Thanks in advance


Brian Mollison
2009 RaceTech Dragster
2020 Sumerduck Dragway VA Top ET Champion
2017 Sumerduck Top ET & SSS Track Champion
2017 MAC Top ET Track Champion
2009 Sumerduck Dragway Va Top ET & IHRA SSS Track Champion
2008 IHRA Division 1 Top ET Bracket Final Runner-up
2007 Colonial Beach Dragway Top ET Track Champion
 
Posts: 1019 | Location: Stafford, Virginia | Registered: October 03, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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On mine I also run the gas scale and best performance on mine is 12.0 to 13.1. Now if you are running a blower it will be much lower needs much more fuel.

Honestly I used the Dyno, spark plugs and ET / MPH to get best performance then I use the O2 to keep the tune up or let me know if anything changes, clogged nozzle etc.

Also for reference I always check my O2 numbers on the data logger right before end of pass full throttle. Those things do stabilize fairly quickly but still I want to use same for comparison apples to apples.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Our products are not designed for ED, they are designed for COMPETITIVE RACERS"
A Narcissist with Small Man Syndrome and he thinks he is a Winner.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 2978 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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What device are you using to display/ record O2 readings? Where is O2 sensor/s located?
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
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I use RPM data logger with 8 O2 sensors. My sensors are about 1/3 to middle of the header tubes from flange on heads. Tried to keep them as close to same location as possible with out burning wires etc.

My understanding is unlike EGT that has to be in same place, same depth to have any consistency or accuracy the O2 just can not be too close to open exhaust / fresh air.

One other thing, my target on mine is 12.9 to 13.1 but it makes no difference in ET probably from 12.5 to 13.5. Have not done much testing there to see how far off it could be before hurting ET. Alcohol is very forgiving there. I still try to keep them close as I have the technology use it.

Once I got a good tune up I do not have to change main pill but 2 or 3 times a year but I do find clogged nozzles once in a while and have to clean them. On my new blower motor I am going to much larger and fewer nozzles to help keep them from clogging as easy.

Also going to say something that some say you must have 125 to 150 PSI to atomize the fuel on MFI. That is not true, I have run in the 40 PSI range wide open and worked great. Right now my set up is around 50 PSI at finish line.

As long as motor is getting proper pounds of fuel it does not matter if it is getting it at 50 PSI or 200 PSI.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Our products are not designed for ED, they are designed for COMPETITIVE RACERS"
A Narcissist with Small Man Syndrome and he thinks he is a Winner.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 2978 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Coloradoracer
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I run the grid with their o2 sensors and it gives me the choice of gas or alky. I set mine to read alky and best performance for my stuff is 5.0-5.3 afr.....not sure what that would be on gas scale though


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1228 | Location: Back home in Colorado! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is why tracks offer test and tune. Timeslip is the only relivant data.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: home | Registered: February 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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% Lambda Methanol Gas Always tune an engine at operating temperature
-10% 1.100 7.095 16.170
-9% 1.090 7.031 16.023 Lean fuel mixture
-8% 1.080 6.966 15.876 Perfect mixture at sea level
-7% 1.070 6.902 15.729 Too lean at WOT
-6% 1.060 6.837 15.582 Lean WOT power CAUTION
-5% 1.050 6.773 15.435 Safe WOT should be 13-19%
-4% 1.040 6.708 15.288 Fat mixture
-3% 1.030 6.644 15.141
-2% 1.020 6.579 14.994
-1% 1.010 6.515 14.847
0% 1.000 6.450 14.700
1% 0.990 6.386 14.553
2% 0.980 6.321 14.406 No permission required to reuse this chart
3% 0.970 6.257 14.259 It is only a guideline for tuning
4% 0.960 6.192 14.112
5% 0.950 6.128 13.965
6% 0.940 6.063 13.818
7% 0.930 5.999 13.671
8% 0.920 5.934 13.524
9% 0.910 5.870 13.377
10% 0.900 5.805 13.230
11% 0.890 5.741 13.083
12% 0.880 5.676 12.936
13% 0.870 5.612 12.789
14% 0.860 5.547 12.642
15% 0.850 5.483 12.495
16% 0.840 5.418 12.348
17% 0.830 5.354 12.201
18% 0.820 5.289 12.054
19% 0.810 5.225 11.907
20% 0.800 5.160 11.760
21% 0.790 5.096 11.613
22% 0.780 5.031 11.466
23% 0.770 4.967 11.319
24% 0.760 4.902 11.172
25% 0.750 4.838 11.025


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1216 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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sorry the color for the code chart did not work


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1216 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of RacerVX54
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quote:
Originally posted by irf3:
This is why tracks offer test and tune. Timeslip is the only relivant data.


LOL you cant be serious.


"Just Shut Up and Race"

Brian Martin
Martin Racing
5.66 @121.55
 
Posts: 1297 | Location: Va.Beach .Va | Registered: August 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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If you were to purchase a MFI system new from Rons or even needed “free” advice on what to use for starting point on their system, James Monroe (Killer Rons 812-327-1190) would get you very close to the starting point for pump / nozzle / pill sizing. He will also offer you advice on how best to tune your present injection and the numbers one could reference if using an O2 or EGT sensor.

Personally, I believe the suggested O2 numbers (gas scale) you are looking to duplicate in your system, will be too lean for best performance and consistency.

Call James Monroe
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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This is what I have experienced in my MFI and used it to transition to EFI recently.

I installed a EFI ECU and left the MFI installed recording the information of the former system during four months of weather from 675’ to 4150’ DA prior to the transition to EFI. My system produced O2 readings (methanol) from 4.9 to 5.6 during the runs with the same pill. The dip in rpm after the convertor flash and dip in rpm again after the shift produced the leanest O2 readings no matter the DA. Both 675’ and 4150’ DA runs produce similar 5.0 – 5.3 O2 readings in the last 600 rpm of engine acceleration. The difference in ET was 0.12 from 675’ to 4150’ DA.

Today I’m on EFI and the majority of the time the programmed O2 is 5.2 at WOT from launch release.
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree with call James Monroe.
 
Posts: 72 | Location: Abilene, Texas | Registered: July 30, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 00 DEAD ON:
I have a Alky terminator. My 02’s Are reading off the gas scale. I was told to look for 12.6-13.00. Mine are reading 11.7 an 11.8. How much do I need to lean it out to get it to 12.6-13.0????
Also on alky terminator what is the best reading for consistency? I know all motors require more or less. Just trying to figure this thing out.
#1 pump 40’s with a 86 return pill.
Thanks in advance


Brian, I know you have been running Terminator's for a long time and have done so quite succesfully. From working with you in the past I know these questions are more about fine tuning and getting the most out of your combo. I bet what you have runs great but you are always looking for a little more/better which is what makes you as good as you are. Like I said in our text message usually in the 12 to 12.5 range on the gas scale will provide the best results. If you find it doesn't stay in the area the entire run then you can start playing with high speeds to flatten the curve. You may find that it makes very little difference though. More often than not that is the case since we drag racers have very high stall converters and operate in a narrow rpm band. But then again you may find that little bit of performance and better consistency you are looking for.
 
Posts: 1838 | Location: Illinois | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by 358T:
quote:
Originally posted by 00 DEAD ON:
I have a Alky terminator. My 02’s Are reading off the gas scale. I was told to look for 12.6-13.00. Mine are reading 11.7 an 11.8. How much do I need to lean it out to get it to 12.6-13.0????
Also on alky terminator what is the best reading for consistency? I know all motors require more or less. Just trying to figure this thing out.
#1 pump 40’s with a 86 return pill.
Thanks in advance


Brian, I know you have been running Terminator's for a long time and have done so quite succesfully. From working with you in the past I know these questions are more about fine tuning and getting the most out of your combo. I bet what you have runs great but you are always looking for a little more/better which is what makes you as good as you are. Like I said in our text message usually in the 12 to 12.5 range on the gas scale will provide the best results. If you find it doesn't stay in the area the entire run then you can start playing with high speeds to flatten the curve. You may find that it makes very little difference though. More often than not that is the case since we drag racers have very high stall converters and operate in a narrow rpm band. But then again you may find that little bit of performance and better consistency you are looking for.


I ran this deal a ways back with a racepak. 12.6 to 13 is way too lean. My combo (565 BBC with Brodix Head Hunter heads) ran the best in the 11.8 to 12.2 range so I'd say your in the ball park... But due to O2 calibrations, and placements in the headers that could cause small differences, let your car tell you what it wants! The time slip won't lie!

What's your combo? I ran an 0 1/2 pump with 39 nozzles, don't remember the pill size but thinking low 80's. This combo ran 7.20's to 30's in a 1925 lbs RED. No high speed bypass required for this setup, O2 curve was pretty flat.
 
Posts: 1903 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Every injection system we ever ran always did it’s best both in speed and consistency when it was fat as a pig.
 
Posts: 611 | Location: Georgia | Registered: May 09, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of BD104X
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I've been running a Terminator for 20+ years and I Agree 100% with irf3 & TOP38... Let James Monroe get you close & then tune for best ET. They are happiest on the fat side. Injected alcohol is great because it's simple, don't complicate it! I've heard of a few people getting themselves sideways trying to tune by instruments and ignoring what the timeslip says.


Billy Duhs - BD104X@gmail.com
 
Posts: 537 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: February 26, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
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quote:
“ Every injection system we ever ran always did its best both in speed and consistency when it was fat as a pig.”
“Let James Monroe get you close & then tune for best ET. They are happiest on the fat side”


^^^^^^ X3
 
Posts: 1888 | Location: 53056 | Registered: December 30, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by irf3:
This is why tracks offer test and tune. Timeslip is the only relivant data.


LOL you cant be serious.


The numbers are arbitrary and different for each setup. I trust plugs and time slips way before I trust an o2 sensor in alky.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
quote:
Originally posted by RacerVX54:
quote:
Originally posted by irf3:
This is why tracks offer test and tune. Timeslip is the only relivant data.


LOL you cant be serious.


The numbers are arbitrary and different for each setup. I trust plugs and time slips way before I trust an o2 sensor in alky.


Buckey,

Not entirely true, O2's with data logging provide a wealth of information for those willing to use that data to tune. The numbers are not arbitrary, ya you can certainly have some differences based on a number of factors but there is a good range. I agree that one can't say your O2 should be X,Y,Z, period. Nothing wrong with reading plugs either but just that doesn't show you the entire picture!
 
Posts: 1903 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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