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Bracket Racing with Turbo Charger
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DRR Sportsman
posted
Has anyone ever successfully bracket raced with a turbo charger or twin turbos? Why haven't they taken off as a power adder in top sportsman/dragster like pro chargers have?

Is it possible to stage at low boost, to keep EGT and jumping into the beams down?

Is it possible to utilize a boost controller to consistently run the same ET?

Seems like if a guy could get this figured out, the turbo would far out perform the pro charger; since you can get the boost up and maintain it with exhaust flow vs Crank RPM.
 
Posts: 607 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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A fella in California, Dan Naylor won Top Dragster points I saw in National Dragster. Efi, turbo LS. Fast car
I’m seeing them more often in various classes.
We have one on my sons very mild ls dragster and two on my small block car that has been in the sixes. Mine is consistent in the low 7’s. Pretty consistent in the sixes but lot of growing pains getting there. With my sons, we had a .03 spread for the weekend on a cold track and a combo that is pretty new for us.

The pro chargers are simple. They can use carbs.
The turbos are a bit more complicated plumbing wise. Nd IMO efi is the only way to go with turbos. And methanol, which means you are getting into pretty spendy injectors.

It’s very important to leave at the same boost level every time and we have ironed that out.
It is a few keystrokes to change everything by hundreds of horsepower so it is important to have patience and use discretion with the boost. And don’t get greedy. The first 100’ can be very tricky if you are pushing it and tire shake can make everything more complicated. But really that’s the case with most combos that are trying to go faster.

Why aren’t they popular? Because they aren’t popular. Lol
Racers are a little monkey see monkey do. And technology isn’t for everyone. The knowledge base is not yet widespread. I am starting to see more of them now and that will ramp up in coming years. Guys like Dan kind of pioneered fast bracket racing with turbos. More are now following.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Why do you think a blow through carb work for Pro Charger and not for a Turbo Charger?

Just wondering the theory behind it.
 
Posts: 607 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
Why do you think a blow through carb work for Pro Charger and not for a Turbo Charger?

Just wondering the theory behind it.


It’s possible and people do it. But why? You need a grid or something to manage ignition timing. Now add a boost controller for the co2.
The efi does all of that and way more. If you are sticking with one boost level thsts one thing. Ramping boost and trying to get it right and enough alky through a carb is challenging. That’s why most that are turbo’ed are efi. All of your tuning is in one software. Not to mention all of your data collection.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
Why do you think a blow through carb work for Pro Charger and not for a Turbo Charger?

Just wondering the theory behind it.


It’s possible and people do it. But why? You need a grid or something to manage ignition timing. Now add a boost controller for the co2.
The efi does all of that and way more. If you are sticking with one boost level thsts one thing. Ramping boost and trying to get it right and enough alky through a carb is challenging. That’s why most that are turbo’ed are efi. All of your tuning is in one software. Not to mention all of your data collection.


Isn't a pro charger essentially ramping boost in, due to how it functions? Faster the crank turns the faster the procharger turns, therefore you do not have constant boost pressure.
 
Posts: 607 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Tom Reyer
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I have a built 98 Camaro, LS w/turbo. I am going to try and bracket race it once I get done sorting my mother-in-laws estate. Just needs a Holley computer and tune.

I was thinking about going old school with a blow thru toilet bowl but why bother. There are so many tunes out there for turbos it wouldn't make sense.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 574 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
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You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 565 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
Picture of Tom Reyer
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quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


With an SLE and transbrake, wouldn't it build the same boost every time? If the SLE open the throttle the same, boost should be the same.

Not trying to spin the world backwards with this set-up.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 574 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


With an SLE and transbrake, wouldn't it build the same boost every time? If the SLE open the throttle the same, boost should be the same.

Not trying to spin the world backwards with this set-up.


Thats what I was thinking.
 
Posts: 607 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of 329L
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


With an SLE and transbrake, wouldn't it build the same boost every time? If the SLE open the throttle the same, boost should be the same.

Not trying to spin the world backwards with this set-up.


Only problem i see is that i dont think you can build enough boost in 1.0 seconds like most SLE are set too


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 565 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
quote:
Originally posted by Holytown:
Why do you think a blow through carb work for Pro Charger and not for a Turbo Charger?

Just wondering the theory behind it.


It’s possible and people do it. But why? You need a grid or something to manage ignition timing. Now add a boost controller for the co2.
The efi does all of that and way more. If you are sticking with one boost level thsts one thing. Ramping boost and trying to get it right and enough alky through a carb is challenging. That’s why most that are turbo’ed are efi. All of your tuning is in one software. Not to mention all of your data collection.


Isn't a pro charger essentially ramping boost in, due to how it functions? Faster the crank turns the faster the procharger turns, therefore you do not have constant boost pressure.


The problem is getting the process started depend on exhaust energy. With the blower it’s linear. I’ve heard that and has their carbs sorted out for this.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


With an SLE and transbrake, wouldn't it build the same boost every time? If the SLE open the throttle the same, boost should be the same.

Not trying to spin the world backwards with this set-up.


That’s exactly how we do it. No excessive trans heat and nobody can hang you out doing it this way. Bump boxes are impractical for bracket racing


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of wideopen231
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Lil brother has tried bracket racing his turbo VW. Car runs 4.70 to 5.30 depending on stock motor of bigger one with rods cams and heads.

He says he borken more stuff bracket racing it than anything else he has run it in. Biggest issue is competition they can either hang you out to fry or rush to pointy hard to get boost up.


Your first mistake was thinking your opinion made a d a m n

America home of free. Brought to you by 2nd amendment.
 
Posts: 3354 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Lil brother has tried bracket racing his turbo VW. Car runs 4.70 to 5.30 depending on stock motor of bigger one with rods cams and heads.

He says he borken more stuff bracket racing it than anything else he has run it in. Biggest issue is competition they can either hang you out to fry or rush to pointy hard to get boost up.


That's why you set up the combo for no bump box and no drama staging.

Obviously thats a fast vw! Hell it's fast regardless. I'm betting that is a high boost setup. That's gonna be difficult to manage bracket racing.

Ask yourself why the baby blowers have become so popular. In a lot of cases its because they have the advantages that a reasonable amount of boost brings, with none of the maintenance issues running a ton of boost brings.
Someone builds an 8 to 1 motor with a tiny cam and needs to leave on 15 psi.....they are gonna be disappointed. An 11 to 1 alky bracket engine with reasonable cam that leaves nice on 4 to 8 psi and they don't get greedy past 16 psi....you just defined about the cheapest way to double the output of that engine short of spraying it.
There's no drama with the spooling boogieman. Theres no more heat in the trans or stress on the engine than there would be in any other engine of that output...usually much less.

People even in this thread define everything they know about turbos by what they see on Outlaws on tv. LOL. You try to rotate the earth, and it's gonna come with challenges.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bucky,


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Top Comp
Picture of wideopen231
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He does not have bump box nor does he do drama stagging games. Can't say same for others


Your first mistake was thinking your opinion made a d a m n

America home of free. Brought to you by 2nd amendment.
 
Posts: 3354 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of 1320racer
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quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.

and everyone with a clue absolutely will!


O'IT!

Offering 1st hand experience and advice based on 3 decades of on track proven performance

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Posts: 12031 | Location: NJ | Registered: August 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
You will have to figure out how to build boost in the least amount of time as possible, because you will not be able to maintain a consistent trans temp once you start going rounds. Personally, i dont see the trans staying cool in a 7-10 round race, and thats if nobody hangs you out because they know you have turbos and have to build boost.


With an SLE and transbrake, wouldn't it build the same boost every time? If the SLE open the throttle the same, boost should be the same.

Not trying to spin the world backwards with this set-up.


Only problem i see is that i dont think you can build enough boost in 1.0 seconds like most SLE are set too


What is "enough boost"? If you need to leave on 12 lbs of boost then it aint gonna work bracket racing. If you need 35 lbs of boost in the run, then it aint gonna work for bracket racing. The turbos will be overly big. Important here is defining what you are looking for out of the turbo.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Tom Reyer
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With mine, I'm going to leave at whatever it will build with the SLE and run the car at 12psi down track. (depends on what it likes) Maybe just have a scramble button, just in case.

Iron block 6.0, 76mm turbo, alcohol, turbo 400, Strange 12 bolt rear.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
 
Posts: 574 | Location: Hanover, MD | Registered: June 20, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
With mine, I'm going to leave at whatever it will build with the SLE and run the car at 12psi down track. (depends on what it likes) Maybe just have a scramble button, just in case.

Iron block 6.0, 76mm turbo, alcohol, turbo 400, Strange 12 bolt rear.


Nice plan. My sons is a 6.0 pull out with a cam and oil pump, valve springs
On alky ran 9.0
Stuck the s475 clone on in about a days work. 4 psi gate springs this far
8.30’s. I think that combo likes a little boost.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5964 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Wow! Thats a great gain for only 4 lbs
 
Posts: 607 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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