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Wiseco q16 piston/wrist pin failure
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DRR Trophy
posted
Wiseco q16 piston part # K477B100
582 BBC
4.375 stroke
6.535 rod
4.600 bore

Built new shortblock and at 65 passes, had #8 piston looks to have come apart pulling wrist pin out of bottom of piston, ended up breaking the rod off and beating up the bottom of the cylinder, wrist pin was still in small end of rod laying in oil pan.....has anyone had this experience with a Wiseco piston, we have ran these in motors for years with no previous issues, talked with local machine shop and said they had seen it some small block round track motors before, but they are probaly turning those at high rpm, mine goes through 1/8at 7200.....and ideas?
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Peterman, AL | Registered: November 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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What was piston to bore clearance? Piston to pin clearance? Rod to pin clearance? What pins?

How much HP?


'71 Chevelle
3370 lbs w/ SBC
5.93 @ 116.7 MPH - N/A
 
Posts: 325 | Location: North Texas | Registered: January 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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Been running the Q16's for years in the 598 and the 632 with no issues. NA. Hard to check shrapnel on the piece in the pan. What does the other spec at right now. You will see if the fit was too tight. Pins will be tight in the others. Small end will be cooked/dark. Post some pics if you can. I never had a pin boss separate ever since they came into production. So many variables. I would with out a doubt contact Wiseco. Jmo...
 
Posts: 390 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Elite
Picture of adv ET 266
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I put 500 runs on a set same as yours, but less dome and +250 rods. Put them back in with same rings and it was still happy when I sold it. Great piston



2005 2000lb 4 link dragster
home brew 582 BBC Dart 355
1.058
2.98
4.629@149
6.094
7.310@185

 
Posts: 11975 | Location: 33463 | Registered: February 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRAMER:
Not sure on clearances, I did not assemble the motor, just got motor pulled out and dropped the pan and pulled the heads, , and this looks as to what happened. Motor should make 900 ish.. ran 5.11 in 2350 pound doorcar. We have same pistons in several other motors and have ran with no problem....just was not what we were expecting to find when we dropped the pan. I have a few pics but not sure how to post them.
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Peterman, AL | Registered: November 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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You can set up an account on Imgur. (Free)
Real simple operation

https://imgur.com/
 
Posts: 390 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Bump
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Peterman, AL | Registered: November 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Look at the other pistons for any marks indicating they were hitting the heads. Even if checked during a pre assembly and nothing hits, piston rock or some area that was closer than it looked can hit and leave a witness mark. Also look at pin bores to see if they were galling from being to tight. You would be looking for anything that added heat possibly.....
 
Posts: 1498 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of 68TSCAMARO
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Did you find both of the locks ?
 
Posts: 869 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of TD3550
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Here they are for you. Looks pretty brutal. I would tend to a lock issue. Don't really see any blueing/heat. Takes a whole bunch to snap a pin in half. Unless the pin was side loaded on/in the pin boss. Meaning clip issue Just my opinion for what it's worth Man i forgot to shrink the JPG's Sorry. If you look at that upside down piston, notice the piston pin boss is egged,pushing down.If that pin hit the wall, you will see it.







This message has been edited. Last edited by: TD3550,
 
Posts: 390 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of Curly1
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By any chance did that motor ever flood with fuel or water?

A bad needle and seat can partially fill a cylinder which will hydraulic and bend a rod.
Does not take much to do it and that could easily start the chain of events that caused this and usually it will be number 7 or 8 cylinders that does it on a single plane intake.


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"Our products are not designed for ED, they are designed for COMPETITIVE RACERS"

2X SHRA NE2 CHAMPION.
 
Posts: 1206 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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looks like it needed a pin upgrade,also i like over .0001 clearance although doesnt look hot unless i cant see the pics clear


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 551 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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Rest of motor looks like new,as it should. We have found absolutely nothing, no blueing, no marks on heads or pistons. Contacted wiseco during build about pin upgrade and they said these pins were more than sufficient for the hp I would be running. So I didn't upgrade. No hydraulic issue either that I've seen. I'll have to look in oil pan for retainers when I go to shop, haven't thought about a retainer issue. This happened right at finish line , 1/8 mile.... was on 5.11 pass as normal...then one hell of a noise!....lol...... so far needs 2 sleeves, 2 rods, 2 pistons, camshaft, moroso billet oil pump, 1 lifter, bent push rods, bent valves, oil pan.......that's good start. ...lol
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Peterman, AL | Registered: November 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of SCDIV1
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Would be a difficult task to determine what broke first.....piston or pin....

A metal failure inspection and analysis of the parts would probably be the only way to determine what broke first...
 
Posts: 1498 | Location: Where ever I am, I'm here and it's me | Registered: March 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Something just doesn't sit right with me on that pin break. odd..Look at the opposite end where it was in the piston boss. About proper distance into the boss.I wonder if that piston is Wesco's second design Q16 piston 150 or 180 wall pin. I know the 150's will take 1000 any day of the week.
 
Posts: 390 | Location: Under a Truck | Registered: August 23, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of 68TSCAMARO
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be interesting to see how many locks are found
 
Posts: 869 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
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I know for a fact they were all double locked, but I'm def gonna look in pan and see what's there. The pin is stuck in small end of rod, top of rod took a lick on bottom of cylinder, so it's not coming out, that's just what was laying in the pan.
 
Posts: 38 | Location: Peterman, AL | Registered: November 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Bad News
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Pin failure.
If the piston broke it would still have the broken end of the pin on the pin, if the pin cam out to the cylinder wall the outside would be mangled.
Usually always the result of something else, hydro, and it does not take much to hydro a hi compression setup, and of course detonation. Look at the main caps and registers for signs of fretting /microwelding, oil pump mating surfaces also will show.
But in the end we all know shi t happens to all parts no matter how much you paid for them.
 
Posts: 709 | Location: ft laud | Registered: September 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Curly1
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quote:
Originally posted by Bad News:
Pin failure.
If the piston broke it would still have the broken end of the pin on the pin, if the pin cam out to the cylinder wall the outside would be mangled.
Usually always the result of something else, hydro, and it does not take much to hydro a hi compression setup, and of course detonation. Look at the main caps and registers for signs of fretting /microwelding, oil pump mating surfaces also will show.
But in the end we all know shi t happens to all parts no matter how much you paid for them.


I still tend to think pin failure to and suspect it may have hydraulic-ed some bending the rod a little that started it. Of course from looking at broken parts in the pan it may be hard to read past history.


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"Our products are not designed for ED, they are designed for COMPETITIVE RACERS"

2X SHRA NE2 CHAMPION.
 
Posts: 1206 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
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upgrade the pins and it be fine ,make sure there is plenty of clearance


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 551 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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