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DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted
Been chasing an issue where the car has been inconsistent in the 60-330, at times will pick up or loose .03-.05 at the 330, and inconsistent lights

At my last race, back to back passes, car lost .05 at the 330.

Here are the two runs overlaid. The dashed line in the faster run. Could these be the converter? Converter has a ton of runs on it, so I am planning on sending it in. Whatcha all think?



Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
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Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Slick Vic
posted Hide Post
Do you use a SLE or do you go on the chip before the tree comes down, or ? When its faster are you the faster car or slower car? What about when its slow?


302-786-1078
slickvic@slickvicracing.com

slickvic@slickvicracing.com
www.slickvicracing.com
302-786-1078

Dealer for most major brands, including Simpson, Necksgen, Hans, Strange, Moser, Amsoil, Aerospace, Digital Delay, Hoosier, M/T, Goodyear, Redhorse, MSD, Racepak, Lucas, and more.

Complete racecar wiring and custom CNC parts available.
 
Posts: 100 | Location: Delaware | Registered: June 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
posted Hide Post
You sure the dashed line was the faster run, it stalls lower and took longer to get to the shift point/rpm! But the DS is higher just about everywhere, especially after the shift...
Something doesn't add up here...

How long has it been since you looked at the tranny? If it is slipping that would explain the higher stall and earlier shifting & slower et's. From your posted data I don't see converter issues. (Does it have a sprag?)
 
Posts: 1208 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
No starting line enhancer. There is no rhyme or reason to when and where it happen. I will make 5 passes in a row, sixty foot will be within .005, but the 60-330 increment will move .03 in the same 5 runs. Then there are times that it will pick up or slow down. I have been chasing this probably for the last six months. Been times that I feel like I killed the tree, and there will be a 30 or 40 on the slip. I chalked it up to just me missing the tree.

Looking at the graph, the converter flashed higher, and shifted about .2 soon, but was .05 slow. Felt like I crushed the tree and the slip showed a 39.

This issue has been driving me crazy! I really hope its the converter. Transmission shows over 200 pressure, I have a gauge installed in the car, thinking maybe I had a transmission issue as the inconsistency always seems to be in the 60-330 increment.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Positive the dash line is the faster run. It has been a while since I have been in the tranny, when I pull the converter I planned on looking at the clutches. Fluid smells clean, and no abnormal temps. I would think if the transmission was slipping I would smell burnt fluid and get higher than usual temps.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Slick Vic
posted Hide Post
Dash line doesn't drop as aggressive after the shift which is were the ET is. Its letting it slip more. I was taking the dot line was slower, sorry re read. When its looser its faster, so id say you need a looser converter than you have, and its loosening/tightening with something moving in converter.


302-786-1078
slickvic@slickvicracing.com

slickvic@slickvicracing.com
www.slickvicracing.com
302-786-1078

Dealer for most major brands, including Simpson, Necksgen, Hans, Strange, Moser, Amsoil, Aerospace, Digital Delay, Hoosier, M/T, Goodyear, Redhorse, MSD, Racepak, Lucas, and more.

Complete racecar wiring and custom CNC parts available.
 
Posts: 100 | Location: Delaware | Registered: June 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of David Gerard
posted Hide Post
A "quick way" to loosen the converter for a test run, is to "load stall" the converter for 5-10 seconds right before you go up to stage.

This will quickly heat up the fluid and give you a few hundred more initial RPM at launch.

Old "Comp" trick before really good converters.
 
Posts: 149 | Location: Fullerton, CA | Registered: June 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
The converter is spragless. Along with being inconsistent, I think the car is down on et also. Given the conditions, I expected the car to be in 6.1s and it was running 6.2s

So my question is, what in the converter could go bad that would cause it to act like this?

I have never seen it slow that much. For most of week car was good with a couple of exceptions. I have yet to scrub though all the data, but I made 30 passes this weekend. So I thrashed it pretty good, hopefully it broke good. I didn't make any further passes after those last two runs.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of WILDMAN
posted Hide Post
I just went through the same thing, although when it finally broke , the oil was dark and gritty. I started off going from .oo n teens to .030s and .040s then to .090s and .10xs, I thought it was me, but practicing on the tree, it wasn't all me. Coming back from a pass it sounded like I was driving through gravel. The converter did have 3 broken turbine fins, but that wasn't the issue, the outer pump gear was piling up the cover. My car was still fairly consistent, but about a .100 slow over all. There was nothing else wrong with the trans, just washed the case and all components out and fixed the 2 broken issues and went racing, car picked back up, noise was gone and I was back to good lights again. My trans did not act like it had an issue.
 
Posts: 72 | Location: at a dragstrip near you | Registered: April 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Thank you for the input. That sounds like what I am dealing with. The car was really good all day Friday. I went 6 rounds in box and nobox. Lost in nobox with a .070 light where my worst light prior was a 29. Was set up for a 15 in box, went .0009 red and the car picked up unexpectedly. Also was hearing a noise this weekend. I dont believe there is anything wrong with transmission. Had the pan off a month ago when I had to replace a rooster comb. Thanks again


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Just reread your post, are you saying the transmission front pump was grinding into the front cover? Or the converter pump?


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of WILDMAN
posted Hide Post
Yes, the large outer pump gear was eating up the front cover, the aluminum was piling up on the gear, both the gear and cover had deep grooves ground into them. Looking at the teeth of the inner and outer gear, the looked fine. This started and lasted over a 4 week period
 
Posts: 72 | Location: at a dragstrip near you | Registered: April 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Did you check the line pressure?


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
Picture of WILDMAN
posted Hide Post
No, I knew the problem was in either the converter, trans er both....I just took it appart and found the problem, my converter is bolt together, so its easy.
 
Posts: 72 | Location: at a dragstrip near you | Registered: April 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Converter is on it way to FTI, I am going to get into the transmission tonight.

Anyone thing my problem lies outside of the converter/transmission. I cant think of anything the could be going on with the engine that would result in higher flash, but the car slows.

Thanks


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Hey All,

Just an update, still waiting to here back on the converter, it will hopefully be there tomorrow..

I got the the transmission apart, everything for the most part looks really good. All the clutches looked perfect.

Last time I rebuild the trans, The band was really burnt. So I put one of those Supported Servo Master Kit 28821-20K from sonnax. After 500 passes, this is what the band looks like. If your having issues with your band burning, definitely look into this.



I did find some places it was rubbing in the case.

It looks like the planataries were rubbing against the reverse apply plate. I got a new bearing and I am going to shim it.




So the other place that I found it was rubbing was between the ring gear and carrier assembly. Not sure how to fix this




So depending on when this is happening, it could be causing the reverse clutch to drag. This could be my possible culpret causing my inconsistency. So is my endplay too tight? Something else going on that I am not

This was my first powerglide build so if anyone has any input or advice, please let me know.

Thanks


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by banjo:
Hey All,

Just an update, still waiting to here back on the converter, it will hopefully be there tomorrow..

I got the the transmission apart, everything for the most part looks really good. All the clutches looked perfect.

Last time I rebuild the trans, The band was really burnt. So I put one of those Supported Servo Master Kit 28821-20K from sonnax. After 500 passes, this is what the band looks like. If your having issues with your band burning, definitely look into this.



I did find some places it was rubbing in the case.

It looks like the planataries were rubbing against the reverse apply plate. I got a new bearing and I am going to shim it.




So the other place that I found it was rubbing was between the ring gear and carrier assembly. Not sure how to fix this




So depending on when this is happening, it could be causing the reverse clutch to drag. This could be my possible culpret causing my inconsistency. So is my endplay too tight? Something else going on that I am not

This was my first powerglide build so if anyone has any input or advice, please let me know.

Thanks
However much *less* the drum cover thickness measures than .125, add that plus a little to your end play. There's no need for all those clutches in reverse either. That ain't helping ya.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,
 
Posts: 64 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
Just so I make sure I understand, I need to measure the thickness of the cover, for the forward drum?

I think there are six in there right now, how many do you recommend? Should I just replace the clutches with steels?


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by banjo:
Just so I make sure I understand, I need to measure the thickness of the cover, for the forward drum?

I think there are six in there right now, how many do you recommend? Should I just replace the clutches with steels?


Yeah, take a dial caliper and measure the thickness of the drum cover. Whatever it measures less than .125, add to your end play plus a little. For a cover that measures .120 as an example, I usually set the end play .015-.020 to be safe. That should fix it without shimming the rear any. 5 will be good bracket racing, you can cut a new reverse piston or use a steel. Either be alright bracket racing.

Take a look at the JEGS brand aftermarket PG cases banjo. Inexpensive, nice, Heavier Duty. Stock case is little flimsy for what you're doing IMO

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mike Rietow,
 
Posts: 64 | Location: Madeira Beach Fl. | Registered: June 12, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of banjo
posted Hide Post
I measured the thickness and it measured at .119. I believe before I had it sitting at .015 and play. What I was planning on doing was adding a shim to the rear on the output shaft and removing the same amount from the pump.

What prevents the ringgear from walking front to back?

Regarding the number of reverse clutches and discussion, Will I see a difference in anything, performance or longeveity?

This is a Reid powerglide case, the case should be plenty for what I am doing.


Bill Simpkins
74 Nova
SBC 406
3240 pounds
Speierracing heads

60 1.29 (10/15)
1/8 6.06@111 (11/15)
Best 9.87@131 on the rev limitor 1 Feb 2013


nova

quarterpanelview

wheelie

FTI Converter
www.speierracingheads.com

Calling out the hypocrisy and offering truth and fact to individuals claiming to offer 1st hand experience and advice based on track proven performance, on the web since 1998

 
Posts: 1551 | Location: San Angelo | Registered: March 07, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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