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DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
Cage is certified, now just waiting on rain to stop; supposed to stop in a couple hrs.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by B KING:
Cage is certified, now just waiting on rain to stop; supposed to stop in a couple hrs.


We ended up getting abut a 3-hr. window to make some passes. I had time for 2 passes & the 1st one the car left with a very slow 1.65 60'. Then gained some steam going down track. We had left the previous 2,800 launch rpm setting for this new combo. Plain & simple, it didn't like it & I changed the launch rpm for the second run. The 2nd run was set at 3,800 launch rpm and only went a 1.47 60'. Part of the issue(s) is the convertor being too tight at 5,100 rpm. The convertor will be taken out this winter loosened up. Plus, the tuner is using a timing launch retard that isn't needed at this time.

I have some other issues I need to work out before this next weekend's races. The car used to pick the front tires straight up out of the beams. Now, they roll out of the beams & I was rewarded with a couple consistent slow reaction times. Frown

I checked all the plugs & cut 3 of them, the fuel is pig fat. We have been tuning the car without using the water/meth injection & this was the 1st time using the system. I'm sure the system is causing some of the fat issues. Sending the data logs to the tuner to make changes for next races.

I've pretty much checked over everything & still need to run the valves.

Overall, it was a good outing with no broken parts on a new combo! Big Grin


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by B KING:
I also need to upgrade our main tow truck (2005 GMC HD 2500). We are going to upgrade to a 3500 Dodge or GM product. Not looking to buy new & we found a few 1-2 years old with under 15K mileage. We will not be in hurry & hopefully can find more of them deals.


Taking some time to update other parts of our racing program thread. While I've been primarily focusing on the race cars. I'm going to shift to finding a new main tow truck.

We are starting to look for a new 3500 dodge or GM diesel tow truck (single or dual rear wheel). We ruled out 1-2 year old used truck, unless we find a good deal. Hopefully, we can find something around the end of the year or the new year. Fingers Cross


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of rusty
posted Hide Post
not a bad time to buy new,a bad time to buy used


opinions are worth what you pay for them
1.036, 6.16@ 224

 
Posts: 1217 | Location: texas | Registered: February 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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^^^Agree^^^


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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I guess I'm the new tuner of my Holley Sniper injection. The tuner is happy with his AFR targets & seems to think the tune needs no adjustments. Below is part of the email I sent him & I have heard nothing in reply.

"I attached the 3 plugs I cut from the 2nd run plug chop. That's from #4, #5 & #7 cylinders. That's the worst plug read in my 30+ years of motorsports. To be blunt, them plugs are pig fat at wide open throttle.

I see you are only concerned with AFR being on target. It may be correct in your eyes, but the plugs are the eyes of the motor & they're not on target."



1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
Depending on placement of o2 sensors in headers it can show a “correct” afr, but still be way off. Sensor is usually near end of collector. Normally that will show idle as lean due to fresh air drawn into collector at low speed. I’ve seen with my own eyes a Holley sniper dthe same thing at wot with open headers. Temporarily added 18” collector extension completely changed the o2 reading at wot. Just a thought.
 
Posts: 419 | Location: Going to or returning from the chipmine. | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Wooley:
Depending on placement of o2 sensors in headers it can show a “correct” afr, but still be way off. Sensor is usually near end of collector. Normally that will show idle as lean due to fresh air drawn into collector at low speed. I’ve seen with my own eyes a Holley sniper dthe same thing at wot with open headers. Temporarily added 18” collector extension completely changed the o2 reading at wot. Just a thought.


Thanks for the input!

We have 23" of collector after the O2. The plan is to start leaning out the target AFR in small increments, read data logs & make adjustments to the fuel table. Regardless, the plugs are fat at WOT & it needs to be leaned be leaned out.

I'm a rookie at this & will try to find another tuner local to do this.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Just keep an eye on the plugs, plugs are the final word on the state of the tube regardless of o2 readings. Just my opinion anyway. Ymmv.
 
Posts: 419 | Location: Going to or returning from the chipmine. | Registered: July 01, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Wooley:
plugs are the final word on the state of the tune regardless of o2 readings. Just my opinion anyway.


I totally agree!

While some think the AFRs & EGTs are the final word with total disregard for reading plugs.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Top Comp
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
I am a huge believer in O2 sensors. Thing is we are trying to get fast, consistent ET's not a specific O2 number.

Forget about the O2 until you get a good tune up with fastest, most consistent ET then use what ever that O2 number is as your baseline.

I have spent a lot of time on the Dyno and while I watch the O2 some on the pulls I am mainly looking for something out of whack. Tuning for most torque and power and then I look at the O2 numbers and will use that as my target to keep a good tune up.

As for EGT's they have been totally useless and I had them on my logger and removed them and threw them away.

Tell him as long as when you cross the finish line it is the ET and MPH not the O2 that shows on the scoreboards we are tuning for ET and MPH.


https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/
"Our products are not designed for ED, they are designed for COMPETITIVE RACERS"
A Narcissist with Small Man Syndrome and he thinks he is a Winner.

4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
 
Posts: 3017 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Another one gets it!

The 80 Camaro got its feet wet yesterday the 1st race since the rebuild. It wasn't pretty, but having multiple issues to work through & nothing broke! We were going to race today, but leave bright & early tomorrow for a short notice excursion.

Relaxing

Issues:

#1 Still too fat with fuel, the only change we made was the fuel pressure was at 62 psi & we set it at the desired 60 psi. Also noticed by both my sons was the noticeable black cloud at the launch & slightly noticeable going down track. I did a plug chop/removed 2 plugs & haven't cut the threads yet.

#2 Having issues with inconsistent reaction times. Part of the issue is setting my staging rpm, it's like a mild blower surge. Need to do something with the linkage or the tune-up in that rpm range. 2nd, the left front tire is skipping at the launch & shortly thereafter. I didn't ask my son how far out it lasted. I do know I don't have the front-end travel I had before. I need to lower the front-end to get the travel back.

#3 The convertor is still too tight. Nothing I can do until I remove it & loosen up about 900 rpm.

#4 I data logged the 2 time runs & don't like the procedure to do it manually. I know there's a way to program it to be automatic, just got to dig in & figure it out. Still haven't looked at data logs.

Other Notes: We had fun, didn't win nor go out in 1st round & didn't break anything! Big Grin


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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Another small issue I didn't put in the last post, was a small leak in our water/methanol tank. I called the manufacturer & I received a replacement today. I'm glad to see companies standing behind their product still!


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by B KING:
Issues:

#1 Still too fat with fuel, the only change we made was the fuel pressure was at 62 psi & we set it at the desired 60 psi. Also noticed by both my sons was the noticeable black cloud at the launch & slightly noticeable going down track. I did a plug chop/removed 2 plugs & haven't cut the threads yet.

#2 Having issues with inconsistent reaction times. Part of the issue is setting my staging rpm, it's like a mild blower surge. Need to do something with the linkage or the tune-up in that rpm range. 2nd, the left front tire is skipping at the launch & shortly thereafter. I didn't ask my son how far out it lasted. I do know I don't have the front-end travel I had before. I need to lower the front-end to get the travel back.

#3 The convertor is still too tight. Nothing I can do until I remove it & loosen up about 900 rpm.

#4 I data logged the 2 time runs & don't like the procedure to do it manually. I know there's a way to program it to be automatic, just got to dig in & figure it out. Still haven't looked at data logs.

Other Notes: We had fun, didn't win nor go out in 1st round & didn't break anything! Big Grin


We have or will be making changes to the above issues:

#1 We made very small changes to the target AFR tables to lean them out. We really need to lean out the fuel tables, but right or wrong we are starting here.

#2 We are moving my idle rpm up 1k & I'll try to stage at idle. Hopefully, that will help with staging.

I only had 3.5"s of front-end travel last time out, we have it at 4.5"s now. The old configuration had 5"s & worked good, but can't do that with the ProCharger getting close to the upper a-arm.

#4 I have to set-up the automatic data logging & will probably use the TPS to turn on & off.

I'm trying to find a place to put the car on a chassis dyno to speed up this tuning process. Right now, I'm looking at Westech Performance in CA.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR Sportsman
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Different fuels have different stoich numbers. Not sure on a holley system if that is accounted for or adjustable but assume it is. In the end whatever stoich is for a given fuel the time slip is the ultimate determinor of the ideal stoich number for your combo.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
Posts: 824 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: April 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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quote:
Originally posted by Al Alguire:
Different fuels have different stoich numbers. Not sure on a holley system if that is accounted for or adjustable but assume it is. In the end whatever stoich is for a given fuel the time slip is the ultimate determinor of the ideal stoich number for your combo.


The tuner we did have thought the target AFR data log numbers were spot on & didn't even consider the plugs posted above. I also told him about the car launching with a black cloud of smoke & it trailing as the car went down the track. We have made some minor changes & the plugs are getting better, but still needs work. Trying to find another tuner & get it on the chassis dyno.

Below is what's stated for our system & we are using gasoline:

Fuel Type: Select “Gasoline” or “Ethanol” for the Fuel Type. This tells the ECU what the stoichiometric A/F ratio is of the fuel used.
Gasoline is 14.7:1 and Ethanol is 9.7:1. This dictates how the target air/fuel should be configured in the Target A/F Ratio table.

We have no heat in the ground strap & may need more timing. We are going to get the fuel right before working on the timing.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Bad News
posted Hide Post
Timing will clean up the fuel to an extent.
Work with both.
Retarded timing will be rich, late firing.
Dont lean it all the way out before you add timing.
 
Posts: 854 | Location: ft laud | Registered: September 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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There area a couple decent tuners here in Vegas....


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
Posts: 824 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: April 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
Let me know who they are & I'll check them out.


1980 Camaro
Taking the Best Working Small Tire Shyt Box & making it Greater Than Before! Big Grin
3050 lbs.
Pump Gas 434
Glide/5800 Stall
4.10 Rear Gears
Car Detuned for high 9s/low10s @ 133-34 mph
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: NV. | Registered: October 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
posted Hide Post
You have a PM....


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
Marcus Tullius Cicero
 
Posts: 824 | Location: Las Vegas, NV | Registered: April 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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