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Lets talk barrel valves
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DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
posted
OK normal never apply's with me. So new injection setup on FED. Enderle bird catcher with K style BV. Normally I have run cube style with injection and K style with blower set ups.

Issues that have a risen.Leak is lot less than I would normally expect 20% vs 28% or so. System seems richener then I would expect also. Cpl things may come into play,give your input.
1 K style BV is lot less restrictive then a cube.
2 it also has lot more pressure on nozzles side due to that less restriction. Which has to equal more flow thru same size nozzles.
3 This could also be reason for less leakage requirement. Although it would seem amount of leakage is just that regardless of restriction.

Ideas?


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Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
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1: Don't overthink it. Adjust as needed.
2: What spool number inside the K?
3: Is the turnbuckle touchy to adjust?


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
I've ran a lot of injection systems and could never understand why a N/A, transbrake car has any concerns about barrel valves.
 
Posts: 1115 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Mike Nitzsche
posted Hide Post
I set my BV's up so it "whacks" good and builds heat, but cools with the fan.
 
Posts: 1115 | Location: Lansing,Mi | Registered: March 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of Curly1
posted Hide Post
I agree with the above replies but have a question or statement. Seems to me 28% leakdown is still 28% no matter what barrel valve you have?

Another thing is are you measuring with SAME gauge?


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Posts: 1212 | Location: United States of Texas | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
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Reason for concern is amount of fuel being used at idle.Understand main and bypass have big effect here too. Building heat is another. I Like to see 180* at close to 4 minutes.

Turn buckle actually seems to take lot more adjustment then I am use to.
Try not to over think but at same time like knowing why.
As for which spool it is same one I had in the TA/D which Spike setup for using dual line setup with one system for stage and another kicking in when at full throttle.Help keep all cylinders same temp on stage. Only difference is where hole is for what would normally have been pump saver port.

Have asked around about another spool for injection vs one for blown and keep getting same story about no difference. I thought there was.


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
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Oh on gauge yes same one for 30 years now.Dang my tools are getting old.LOL


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
posted Hide Post
No difference. Baloney. You need a #32 spool for NA. Whole different animal.


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
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I knew there was different one's,but could not remember number for NA. WIll call next week and order one from you.


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
The idle check hole (sometimes elongation) through the BV spool has to coordinated. You are running a spool intended to be at 80% and have it set in the 20s. My guess is that the idle check is mostly restricted due to your reduced setting. The idle check pressure can make a big difference in idle delivery regardless of BV leak setting.
BW

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bry-war,
 
Posts: 60 | Location: Rock><Hard Place | Registered: February 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bry-war:
The idle check hole (sometimes elongation) through the BV spool has to coordinated. You are running a spool intended to be at 80% and have it set in the 20s. My guess is that the idle check is mostly restricted due to your reduced setting. The idle check pressure can make a big difference in idle delivery regardless of BV leak setting.
BW


Only issue with this one would be if too long.I checked it for this reason and found it was about 80% clear andopening was way more than the .120 to 140 range of jet I set system up for. Using nozzle size to keep jetting in range and pressure where I want it at,well close.Seems we never get exactly what we want.LOL

I will dbl check it this morning since I was closing it quite a bit yesterday. Just for knowledge since will order new spool from Dave next week.


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
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Dave,

Question. Have you ever checked pressure difference between cube and K style BV's?

On the 32 spool isn't that for Cube style BV or do they make one for K style with same number. I did see there is a blower and an tunnel ram spool for Kstyle.Looks like main difference is in the V groove at top. Anything else different?

Using FIE web site calculator it show huge difference in system pressure due to less drop across BV .Makes sense seeing as K style is straight thru design.


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Trophy
posted Hide Post
I ran a bird catcher for a couple of years on my altered and another racer told me how to set the barrel valve . He gave me his temp gun and said to shoot the headers on each port while your adjusting. You'll see when you get too lean some cylinders will go cold maybe 350 instead of 600deg. When its like this and you fatten it up till all cylinders are close it will actually make more heat on warmup. Then just pull the fuel shutoff partially to save fuel on return road.I liked this direct measurement of exhaust temp better than the leakdown gage.Good luck
 
Posts: 34 | Location: new jersey | Registered: January 08, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Dave,

Question. Have you ever checked pressure difference between cube and K style BV's?

On the 32 spool isn't that for Cube style BV or do they make one for K style with same number. I did see there is a blower and an tunnel ram spool for Kstyle.Looks like main difference is in the V groove at top. Anything else different?

Using FIE web site calculator it show huge difference in system pressure due to less drop across BV .Makes sense seeing as K style is straight thru design.


Yup, there is one for the K valve. The one you want has a lot longer ramp than the blower spools.

And yes the cube valve has a large pressure drop. Think about it. It's small and makes at least 4 turns coming and going. What could go wrong?

BryWar is correct.


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Stephen Hughes
posted Hide Post
This may be a dumb question, but is the “cube” style barrel valve any way comparable to Ron’s barrel valves? I was also playing around with fuel injection calculator and was curious if any of the barrel valve options on there were similar enough to get an idea of whats goin on.
 
Posts: 307 | Location: Texas | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Big Steve
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Koehler:
quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Dave,

Question. Have you ever checked pressure difference between cube and K style BV's?

On the 32 spool isn't that for Cube style BV or do they make one for K style with same number. I did see there is a blower and an tunnel ram spool for Kstyle.Looks like main difference is in the V groove at top. Anything else different?

Using FIE web site calculator it show huge difference in system pressure due to less drop across BV .Makes sense seeing as K style is straight thru design.


Yup, there is one for the K valve. The one you want has a lot longer ramp than the blower spools.

And yes the cube valve has a large pressure drop. Think about it. It's small and makes at least 4 turns coming and going. What could go wrong?

BryWar is correct.


Dave,
Can you explain the difference between the K valve 4020A-32 spool for a Tunnel ram and the 4020A Spool for blown alky?
What issues would you see if say you had a 32 on a blown combo or vice versa

Thanks
 
Posts: 461 | Location: On the the dark side now | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR S/Pro
Picture of wideopen231
posted Hide Post
Big Steve pm sent


http://www.schooledbyscotty.com/
Only the stupid know too much to learn something new.
Chris McBride

deplorables saving america one vote at a time
 
Posts: 1195 | Location: Greensboro NC | Registered: May 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Big Steve:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Koehler:
quote:
Originally posted by wideopen231:
Dave,

Question. Have you ever checked pressure difference between cube and K style BV's?

On the 32 spool isn't that for Cube style BV or do they make one for K style with same number. I did see there is a blower and an tunnel ram spool for Kstyle.Looks like main difference is in the V groove at top. Anything else different?

Using FIE web site calculator it show huge difference in system pressure due to less drop across BV .Makes sense seeing as K style is straight thru design.


Yup, there is one for the K valve. The one you want has a lot longer ramp than the blower spools.

And yes the cube valve has a large pressure drop. Think about it. It's small and makes at least 4 turns coming and going. What could go wrong?

BryWar is correct.


Dave,
Can you explain the difference between the K valve 4020A-32 spool for a Tunnel ram and the 4020A Spool for blown alky?
What issues would you see if say you had a 32 on a blown combo or vice versa

Thanks

In simplest terms a supercharger happens NOW when the pedal is stomped. Thus it need a big gulp of fuel NOW when transitioning from idle to WOT. Blowers also run technically overrich (high leakdown) to keep from burning up the blower. That is why you see the big boys misting fuel out the pipes. Using the same spool on a NA engine would be a flooder. Basically the NA has a longer ramp before going WOT.

IF there was not such a thing as a barrel valve one could use solenoids. Open solenoid to dump lots of fuel back to the tank for idle purposes, shut solenoid for wide open and go.
Now that is simplistic and leaves no room for part throttle launch, etc so barrel valves and spools are cool. That is essentially what the different spool ramps do for different scenarios.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave Koehler,


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Pro
Picture of Big Steve
posted Hide Post
Dave, Is there any difference in WOT flow between the 2 spools?
 
Posts: 461 | Location: On the the dark side now | Registered: April 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
Picture of Dave Koehler
posted Hide Post
Nope, WOT be WOT.
There is a difference between the cube and the K valve for hopefully obvious reasons.


Dave Koehler - Koehler Injection - http://www.koehlerinjection.com
Fuel Injection - Nitrous Charger - Nitrous Master Software - Balancing
99% of fuel injection problems are electric.
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Urbana, IL 61802 | Registered: December 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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