Bracket Talk
CHESS....

This topic can be found at:
http://drr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/75460652/m/8427051386

July 15, 2019, 08:16 AM
Bucky
CHESS....
I don't really think any of us KNOW unless it is us doing it. So we are down to what we THING and FEEL. That can be dangerous. But....

I don't think or feel that the best money racers in the nation are cheating. I believe they are simply good at what they do.

I would not be surprised that there is SOME infringing on the rules going on from an ET standpoint. I seriously doubt it from an RT stand.

The old Reagan deal was Trust but Verify. There has to be SOME policing in order to keep folks honest. Not everyone shares the same high level of integrity as your average drag racer.

The only thing that I KNOW, is that there is software and equipment on cars right now that are capable of letting a racer infringe on the rules. And I don't know that there is a great solution for this. There are efi ecu's that let you do things that aren't legal. But do we want to limit the brands of efi that racers can use? The last thing I want is NHRA getting their fingers into "approving" certain boxes. That leads to higher prices and fewer selections for racers. I don't want more rules. But this is a grey area frankly. If equipment has the feature, but it isn't being used, has any rule been broken if the equipment is not disallowed? No would be my answer.


If everything is racist, nothing is racist.
July 15, 2019, 08:51 AM
Tom Reyer
There ARE people out there cheating, I can assure of this.

Working at the race car shop for 9 years, I saw some questionable stuff come thru the doors. Most were people who were trying to cheat but still never won anything. All the cars we corrected before they left the shop. The owner always handled it the same way.

"You car is done. We noticed you had XXX wired incorrectly so we re-wired it per the manufacturers recommendations."

or

"We went ahead and straightened out the wiring under the dash / under the seat / under the carpet for no charge."

There were a few hidden delay boxes removed over the years and other questionable wiring corrected as well. I haven't worked there for 6 years now so I am out of the loop on some of the new stuff that may or may not be out there.

To me, just because someone turns on a win light DOES NOT make them a cheater. It's the people who never win that you have to look at.


72 Nova "Hooptie"
July 15, 2019, 09:16 AM
markemark
quote:
Originally posted by CURTIS REED:
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by Rookieman:
I thought the guy that put on the big $525K race at Michigan was going to give lie detector test's to the top 3 or 4 finishers, what happened to that? Could the fact that the guy who won was one of the house cars, could that have had anything to do with it.


This winning truck had analog ignition and driver was hired.


How does that matter to his question about a lie detector.


The flier details states “ No Stutter Boxes. Slew Rate Controllers Prohibited”. “ Winners of the Main Event MAY be subject to tear down and polygraph test”.
July 15, 2019, 09:25 AM
27Keith
Is traction control legal ?


4 X Track Champion ( 2 & 2 )
2 X Run off Winner
July 15, 2019, 09:53 AM
David Covey
quote:
Originally posted by 27Keith:
Is traction control legal ?


Depends on the class/series you are racing..

No prep for sure.

Dave


"Participating in a gun buyback program because you think that criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your neighbors have too many kids."

-Clint Eastwood
July 15, 2019, 10:36 AM
markemark
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
To me, just because someone turns on a win light DOES NOT make them a cheater. It's the people who never win that you have to look at.


I have Grid with a CAN-bus hub with 3 Stage Delay Timer attached siting in plain sight with a Digital Delay rely board in the passenger seat / foot well area. I’ve never won a major high dollar race, but that is my goal along with having fun racing.

Because of this ignition, some want to plug into it and check. Some doing the check, don’t even know how to plug into it correctly when checking.

Most that use Dig 7 will never be checked other than a visual. Few have a MSD 7550 to make this check or a laptop with MSD GraphView to confirm the ignition model number.

If using EFI like Holley Dominator which is very powerful, how many would know how to police this??
July 15, 2019, 01:08 PM
DragRaceResults
I'm more concerned about an unfair playing field then I am others beating me by cheating. I've seen this first hand with nothing done, and nothing is done. We as racers just stand for it.

SL... Just say'n



www.dragraceresults.com
July 15, 2019, 01:29 PM
Bucky
quote:
Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
I'm more concerned about an unfair playing field then I am others beating me by cheating. I've seen this first hand with nothing done, and nothing is done. We as racers just stand for it.

SL... Just say'n


Can you elaborate?


If everything is racist, nothing is racist.
July 15, 2019, 02:02 PM
markemark
^^^^^^ X2
July 15, 2019, 02:38 PM
DRB Motorsports
HMMMM


Michael Frizie
ET 2471
2011 Diamond Chassis Dragster
July 15, 2019, 02:44 PM
TORQIN
Possibilities:

People entering more than the two entries permitted.

People buying entries during buy back round cuz they lost 1st rd and the buyback round too so they can possibly get to second round on one entry?


Just some guesses?

IDK
July 15, 2019, 02:46 PM
Richard Hammond
quote:
Originally posted by DragRaceResults:
I'm more concerned about an unfair playing field then I am others beating me by cheating. I've seen this first hand with nothing done, and nothing is done. We as racers just stand for it.

SL... Just say'n


Can you elaborate anymore about this? And how’s your leg?
July 15, 2019, 02:55 PM
The Pirate
Can someone elaborate on what is "cheating"?

Please don't speculate on what "you think" is cheating, please back it up with where to find the rule in a flyer or on a website. And NO the NHRA rulebook does not mean anything in big money bracket racing so that is not a place to find a rule.

Thanks in advance!


Lynn Ellison
July 15, 2019, 03:50 PM
Tom396
I think SL must be referring to b*ybacks. And I agree. Let's just get rid of them. Big Grin Wink Take care. Tom Worthington


If it seems that bracket racing has gotten too expensive for you, maybe you are just doing it wrong.
July 15, 2019, 04:36 PM
Mike Beck
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
To me, just because someone turns on a win light DOES NOT make them a cheater. It's the people who never win that you have to look at.


I have Grid with a CAN-bus hub with 3 Stage Delay Timer attached siting in plain sight with a Digital Delay rely board in the passenger seat / foot well area. I’ve never won a major high dollar race, but that is my goal along with having fun racing.

Because of this ignition, some want to plug into it and check. Some doing the check, don’t even know how to plug into it correctly when checking.

Most that use Dig 7 will never be checked other than a visual. Few have a MSD 7550 to make this check or a laptop with MSD GraphView to confirm the ignition model number.

If using EFI like Holley Dominator which is very powerful, how many would know how to police this??


Shhhhhhhh about the Holley Dominator......

Without wheel speed or drive shaft speed sensors, pretty hard to have the EFI cheat for you.

Now, for those with newer electronically controlled transmissions, there is a whole nother can of worms to open! We have input and output shaft speed sensors in them, throw a wheel speed sensor in, which is factory installed on just about every car/truck made since 2000 or so, and imagine what can be done......
July 15, 2019, 04:41 PM
markemark
quote:
Originally posted by The Pirate:
Can someone elaborate on what is "cheating"?


Everything listed on the Event Race Flyer that is prohibited.
July 15, 2019, 04:46 PM
markemark
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Beck:
Shhhhhhhh about the Holley Dominator......


Yea, Mike.. I know……
July 15, 2019, 05:36 PM
Richard Hammond
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Beck:
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by Tom Reyer:
To me, just because someone turns on a win light DOES NOT make them a cheater. It's the people who never win that you have to look at.


I have Grid with a CAN-bus hub with 3 Stage Delay Timer attached siting in plain sight with a Digital Delay rely board in the passenger seat / foot well area. I’ve never won a major high dollar race, but that is my goal along with having fun racing.

Because of this ignition, some want to plug into it and check. Some doing the check, don’t even know how to plug into it correctly when checking.

Most that use Dig 7 will never be checked other than a visual. Few have a MSD 7550 to make this check or a laptop with MSD GraphView to confirm the ignition model number.

If using EFI like Holley Dominator which is very powerful, how many would know how to police this??


Shhhhhhhh about the Holley Dominator......

Without wheel speed or drive shaft speed sensors, pretty hard to have the EFI cheat for you.

Now, for those with newer electronically controlled transmissions, there is a whole nother can of worms to open! We have input and output shaft speed sensors in them, throw a wheel speed sensor in, which is factory installed on just about every car/truck made since 2000 or so, and imagine what can be done......


When those newer cars start showing up and dominating big money brackets that's when you need to worry.
July 15, 2019, 05:37 PM
Richard Hammond
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by The Pirate:
Can someone elaborate on what is "cheating"?


Everything listed on the Event Race Flyer that is prohibited.


Like what? Is pulling timing illegal? Wouldn't that be considered a down track stutter? And I keep hearing people complaining about riding the dots. Is that illegal as well?
July 15, 2019, 08:23 PM
markemark
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hammond:
quote:
Originally posted by markemark:
quote:
Originally posted by The Pirate:
Can someone elaborate on what is "cheating"?


Everything listed on the Event Race Flyer that is prohibited.


Like what? Is pulling timing illegal? Wouldn't that be considered a down track stutter? And I keep hearing people complaining about riding the dots. Is that illegal as well?


I believe they would be referring to the MSD 7531 Digital 7 box, MSD 7761 ARC Module and anything like a Davis traction control module.

All other programmable Digital 7 and Grid programmable ignition and modules are legal.