Local track opened this past weekend for the first T&T. They had rubber peeling up/ Pretty good rubber to still be on the track since last year! Lots of track prep going on.

My question to the topic isn’t what the tracks are doing wrong in these “going away” situations, but why does the standard have to be set by drivers that chose bring an unrealistic setup to a big money bracket race. I learned early on that if you want to build a car fast enough to chase a majority of the field, you’re also giving up some of the traction assurance. So with knowing that I could never expect a promoter to pull the plug on a race when, me, with the faster car couldn’t be competitive, because during the same scenario there might be a guy still in, that chose to keep a slower more reliable car for mediocre conditions. Pulling the plug in that event would make me feel like a selfish prick that only wants it my way.

It probably can’t be proven, but I’d be willing to bet in most of these cases of stopping a race due to track conditions, there was one racer that had a new found confidence, knowing his vehicle would still perform, but then it’s stripped away

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Keith Walters,

One thing I rarely hear talked about is the actual track material surface. Prep is almost always blamed. Our track replaced the asphalt from the 1/8 mile on and the material used was too course. It wasn't good. Consequently it was replaced again. Unless it's concrete and even then the surface finish has an effect, the asphalt used will have a great deal of effect on how the rubber stays on the track. Just something else to think about when comparing different track's conditions.

Curtis

quote:

I watched a fair amount of the race at VMP over the weekend and only remember their truck coming out after a spill. Don't think they dragged the track just to do so. Pretty cold in the early and late rounds and plenty of fast cars got down the track!

I was totally amazed at how good the track was !!!! I think they raced the final Friday night at 29 degrees

That VMP crew knows a thing or two about track prep, and that surface was brand new, NEVER raced on before Thursday

VMP race
I was watching and even 4.40 cars were getting down in the cold.Was very impressed !!
Even on tv the grove looked really nice.

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Originally posted by M120:
Tried to find a picture of Atco while we waited out a snow dusting for a Billy Mitchell race. If I remember correctly, it had Billy Duhs in the photo.
Can't find it though. I'm sure Dave Milcarek has it.

PS: I have raced at Cecil County for their Street Car Shoot Outs. Jim Halsey was always out there spraying each lane with a 3 gallon pump sprayer. I appreciate his effort and sometimes will drive past Atco Dragway to go to Cecil.

I'm done, again,I think!

LOL, that was over 10 years ago! I have that pic framed in my living room - me staging the car with snow falling... still one of my favorite pics! I would post it if it wasn't such a PITA to post pics on here. Just for the record - I didn't actually make the run, I only had to take the tree to make my bye run official and we finished the next day but if I recall the track was perfect all night despite the cold. To be honest, I have been racing at Atco for over 20 years and can only remember one or two instances where the track was ever sub-par.

From watching and listening to people the Gators had some track issuesthis past weekend.

quote:

Originally posted by Keith Walters:
My question to the topic isn’t what the tracks are doing wrong in these “going away” situations, but why does the standard have to be set by drivers that chose bring an unrealistic setup to a big money bracket race. I learned early on that if you want to build a car fast enough to chase a majority of the field, you’re also giving up some of the traction assurance. So with knowing that I could never expect a promoter to pull the plug on a race when, me, with the faster car couldn’t be competitive, because during the same scenario there might be a guy still in, that chose to keep a slower more reliable car for mediocre conditions. Pulling the plug in that event would make me feel like a selfish prick that only wants it my way.

It probably can’t be proven, but I’d be willing to bet in most of these cases of stopping a race due to track conditions, there was one racer that had a new found confidence, knowing his vehicle would still perform, but then it’s stripped away

Don't get the big head but you're not getting an argument because you're right.

quote:

Originally posted by Eman:

quote:

Originally posted by Keith Walters:
My question to the topic isn’t what the tracks are doing wrong in these “going away” situations, but why does the standard have to be set by drivers that chose bring an unrealistic setup to a big money bracket race. I learned early on that if you want to build a car fast enough to chase a majority of the field, you’re also giving up some of the traction assurance. So with knowing that I could never expect a promoter to pull the plug on a race when, me, with the faster car couldn’t be competitive, because during the same scenario there might be a guy still in, that chose to keep a slower more reliable car for mediocre conditions. Pulling the plug in that event would make me feel like a selfish prick that only wants it my way.

It probably can’t be proven, but I’d be willing to bet in most of these cases of stopping a race due to track conditions, there was one racer that had a new found confidence, knowing his vehicle would still perform, but then it’s stripped away

Don't get the big head but you're not getting an argument because you're right.

I can't agree however that some tracks don't have issues. If you can't consistently put a mild, well set up super comp dragster down a track, and many others can't either, there may be an issue with the track.
I won't argue though that the expectation is very high from some fast cars that demand a very good track. This sport has evolved and has become naturally faster. People wonder why nobody wants to watch bracket racing, and then in the next breath argue that fast cars shouldn't set the standard. There's really no answer that works for every situation. I have been to a track that is usually very good, that briefly lost its mojo. It wasn't safe for anyone. But that isn't my usual experience with our local tracks. Mistakes happen. When the race is high stakes, the expectations tend to be higher.

This whole conversation is kind of a double-edged sword... If you want to be the fastest guy on the property at a bracket race, there is probably also a good chance that you will be the first guy to be disappointed if the track goes away at all, BUT the average ET at a bracket race is probably a full second quicker than it was 20 years ago though, so its also the responsibility of the track to evolve with the needs of its main customer base like any other business.
Of course this thread has hopelessly derailed from the original question of HOW some tracks keep the track prepped consistently, but that's usually what happens on here.

quote:

Originally posted by BD104X:
This whole conversation is kind of a double-edged sword... If you want to be the fastest guy on the property at a bracket race, there is probably also a good chance that you will be the first guy to be disappointed if the track goes away at all, BUT the average ET at a bracket race is probably a full second quicker than it was 20 years ago though, so its also the responsibility of the track to evolve with the needs of its main customer base like any other business.
Of course this thread has hopelessly derailed from the original question of HOW some tracks keep the track prepped consistently, but that's usually what happens on here.

Agreed on all points.

I owned and managed tracks from before traction compound to the VHT, Pj1 and TrackBite compounds. Back then a "drag" or a "reverse roller" were dream equipment.

The simplest thing I can say is it is NOT quantity of traction compound or really how it is applied.

It is track surface prep (you can't spray over oil drips, old rubber, etc. You have to scrape and we always washed ours with Tide and water to get the Oils out.

We did NOT have 4.40 bracket cars but we didn't race for $10,000 either.

My opinion of traction....just keep it consistent and don't be spraying in between rounds just for something to do. Our dragster is not fast at 4.70-80s but it is built to be consistent on about any track anywhere. At least for the last 2o years racing it I can't remember it ever blowing the tires off or having to lift at mid-track.

A track making $1500 a week on a bracket race is stupid if it spends $1000 of that on glue. Just spray it and race it, is what it is. If customer can't tolerate it they will leave, simple as that. Its a business that has to be profitable for all cars not just the high dollar fast ones (not like fast bracket racers out anyone in the bleachers).

Jok

Don't most tracks cut the glue with 30% methanol? Will it come out of the sprayer if its not cut?

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Originally posted by Footloose:
Don't most tracks cut the glue with 30% methanol? Will it come out of the sprayer if its not cut?

I believe so, but it depends on weather to some extent. I always figured part of the benefit of the solvent was to soften the existing rubber.

quote:

Originally posted by Footloose:
Don't most tracks cut the glue with 30% methanol? Will it come out of the sprayer if its not cut?

If I heard correctly it comes cut now ready to spray. If you thin it further then....results will vary.

quote:

Originally posted by Footloose:
Don't most tracks cut the glue with 30% methanol? Will it come out of the sprayer if its not cut?

From what I've seen from working the burnout box on occasion, there is some mixing depending on weather and conditions. 100% glue will sit on top of the surface, and needs cut to get down in the pores. It needs cut to come out as an even mist too. You can tell when the mix is high glue percentage, watching the hand spray. You'll see the spider web strands in the air instead of the mist.

quote:

Originally posted by stk 758 BP!:

quote:

Originally posted by Footloose:
Don't most tracks cut the glue with 30% methanol? Will it come out of the sprayer if its not cut?

If I heard correctly it comes cut now ready to spray. If you thin it further then....results will vary.

Some comes pre-mixed, like Lane Choice 7 and if specified, PJ1
there is no "solvent" value in the methanol to the surface rubber, it just makes spraying easier / better.

Lane Choice 6 did seem to contain a solvent, very weird stuff, but effective when you get it right.

We've mixed up to 70% alky, on a hot track, less is more, and we felt like the cooling effect of the alky mist did more than the compound.

Starting line personnel need to be able to recognize when and where touch-ups with a hand sprayer and Gold Dust are needed. Again, usually, less is more.

The key to the methanol mix is DRY alky, ANY moisture content in the alky will turn the compound into snot.

We found that Gold Dust is an important part of initial prep and touch ups.
We applied 540' of Gold Dust on a new surface and got great results with about 60 cars to run it in.....

The "glue" is designed to promote adhesion of rubber to the surface, nothing does more for the track than high horsepower cars on fat tires.

We've dumped 1500 gallons of water on the track to cool it before time trials.

All above anecdotal information pertains to a bracket track scenario, the crazy "street" radial and "no-prep" people take a whole different approach.

my car has no horsepower so I hook about anytime. What I do see is No prep,wanna be tv stars that buy 3000 horsepower and add a couple of stages of NOS and then complain because the track can't hold their car .
Don't expect more than your going to get ,If its that important for a perfect hook each time get your car set up correctly.
I watch cars run at a 1/8 mile class with a spec 8.5 tire and they run in the 4's regularly.If they can do that on a 8.5 tire ,they have my respect.