I don't deep stage. I've tried it and I found it lead to some issues. I shallow stage. I want to know what is the best way for me to stage when my opponent is deep staging. I do not want there to be any issues. This is assuming you believe the track and/or event does NOT hold the tree for deep stagers. I thought I had it down pat. I just don't light the stage light until they have gotten all the way in deep. But that isn't really good enough. If you do that, YOU can be timed out for not getting in quickly enough. I never really gave it much thought, til it happened to me. It was only because this particular deep stager had a great deal of integrity and sportsmanship and we both recognized what had happened. We BOTH backed up and reset things.

What should I do if I am running a deep stager and want neither of us to be timed out? Don't even prestage before the deep stager has lit both bulbs? Would that be good? Take care. Tom Worthington

I used to deep stage all the time , now not so often. Just look at it this way, he is pre staged when 2 bulbs are on and must wait till you light one, now you both will be on the clock, OR you light one and wait for him to light 2 then you BOTH should be on the clock because 2 bulbs are on unless they are holding the tree. Never count on that. If both do what the are supposed to do and get on in there will be no problem

Why do you care what your deep staging opponent does?

That said, your concern should be how the track officially handles deep staging meaning do they honor deep staging which would mean they turn off auto Start and hold the tree for the deep stager to get in OR they don’t which means auto start is on for all then the deep stager better get in an knock his top bulb out.

I treat them same as a shallow-stager. I do my stage routine at my normal pace without special regard to if their bottom bulb is on. Things have always worked out fine with no feelings hurt. If a deep stager pauses at the top bulb before lighting them both (their pre-stage), I could care less.

Just take a 'normal' amount of time to stage and don't worry about anything else. As long as you're not one of those guys that just CHUNKS it in, the deep stager will get in.

I often shake my head when running No-Box races up north. I'm a deep stager, and will put two bulbs on (plus a chunk). I'm typically already setting my launch rpm as my opponent pre-stages and it only takes a few bumps to get deep, yet several drivers still manage to beat me in. Luckily, it's been at racers where the starter has been paying attention. It's bizarre to me how people can still stage ridiculously quick and sloppy in this day and age. LOL But again, if the shallow car doesn't do anything crazy, most deep stagers can stage in a timely manner.

The instance where timing and procedure *IS* absolutely crucial is if someplace allows deep staging in the Box class. In order for the Deep car to not get quick treed and the Box car not get a slow tree, the Deep car must stage first, then the Box car stage. If the starter waits to arm the tree until both cars are staged, the Box car will get a long tree. If the starter arms the tree before the Deep car is fully staged, the Box car may get undeservedly timed out. We had a Box vs No-Box 64-Car Shootout at Quaker City a couple years ago, and I ran Marco Abruzzi in the finals. I made sure everyone involved understood all the variables before the run, and everything went smoothly.

If timing systems recognized Deep like the ETS Timing System does, we wouldn't even have to have this discussion. I did learn that some of the later TSI systems will handle it by putting an asterisk after the car number. Northern Michigan Dragway had it there. Didn't have any problems. I believe PortaTree systems handle Deep as well, but I haven't run on one.

Having raced for years at tracks that do not honor deep, we have developed some special skills LOL
Try racing against jim Young and Andrew Bracuto, they're in deep before before you can do a burnout
My kid gets in deep stupid fast, he flickers the bulb 99% of the time and sit's idle till the shallow stager throws one light on then gets the R's up. I'm sure when we travel he pisses some people off especially when they honor deep but that's just his routine. If someone stages first he can slide right in and be deep real quick with a bump or two.
My advice is just do your own thing, the deepstager always has to be able to adapt.

Is courtesy staging not a thing at some tracks?

I kinda don't get courtesy staging, although I try to honor it myself - I just don't care if the other lane goes up there and lights both bulbs, I just do what I do. I also figure it's not my responsibility to alter my routine to accommodate deep stagers. I'm CERTAINLY not going to wait with my bottom bulb on while the other lane bumps in deep, that can lead to getting timed out, as the OP learned.

The NHRA has no courtesy staging rule for bracket racing nor is their one for The Summit ET Series.

Each track can make a rule regarding courtesy staging. Nhra don't care what happens at a bracket race.

I've said this 15± years ago, but a scernio would be be placing a letter "D" behind your dial to give you a .600 tree and stage shallow. Bob don't care though.

I'm sure many don't care though either. If you can invent crosstalk,turn off crosstalk and"invent" worst red (Steve T. did!), you can add .100 to green!

Granted it's racing and we like to go fast but it's a race to go deep before the race.

I have to agree with most others here. Just worry about your staging and do not change up your game to accommodate them. If they are going to stage deep it is their problem to get it in time.

HS professor ask Jim Young about the time him and I and Larry Pappus (I think) went to a race in Indiana where they had NEVER seen anyone deep stage.

Another deal was the time I went to the IHRA Div 2 bracket finals and the Div director demanded that we courtesy stage. I explained to my team that if we did that we could very well get screwed by the regular stager. We incorporated what we call the Indiana slide. Div director was hot but hey, it was his idea.

Thank you all for the inputs. It's given me much to think about. I can say this. I'm not going to treat a deep stager exactly as I would anyone. I consider "deep" being written on a competitor's window more for my benefit than for the tower. Most places I run, deep staging might be allowed, but it certainly is not guaranteed. I don't mind adjusting my routine a little. I'm just trying to find the best fit for everyone. Take care. Tom Worthington

quote:

Originally posted by Bucky:
Is courtesy staging not a thing at some tracks?

Define courtesy staging for a deep stager?
Many times tracks and racers that don't deep stage define courtesy staging as each racer lights the top before either one lights the stage bulb. This sets the deep stager up to not be able to get deep.

Some local tracks were very reluctant to accept deep staging. Once they did they ask that you write deep on all sides so the tower and the other racer knows you are deep staging.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Eman,

BTW, if a deep stager gets timed out, he deserved it! It you get timed out, you're a schmuck for waiting for him to knock his top bulb out.

Eman thats the way I understand it.

Autostart and 2 deep stagers. Odds are someone ain't gonna make it in.

Phil, I am my competitor got in every time.

Its up to you to get in there as long as you don't break their rules......but you need to know the rules.