Bracket Talk
16 volt system
March 25, 2020, 10:57 AM
rprpeds@sbcglobal.net16 volt system
Recently switched to a 16 volt system in my dragster. I bought turbo start thru Summitt. Charger went bad and ruined battery. Summitt has been great but turbo start is terrible. Don’t buy
March 25, 2020, 05:49 PM
Curly1I have the XS power 16 volt battery and had a problem with it. I talked to them and sent it back in. They were very good and sent me a new one.
I will say one thing about the 16 volt batteries my opinion. They will spin over FASTER so it usually starts faster but I do not know that the overall power is any better. That is it may start faster and better but maybe not as many times if it is not charged.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.
Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.
4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
March 25, 2020, 06:19 PM
Bob NicholsThe bigger advantage is for MSD minimum required voltage. If you look at the doc it needs a 11v (I think) to operate properly. By the time you turn on all your accessories, a 12v system could draw down and be close to MSD minimum. The 16 volt system will hold enough voltage to run the MSD properly. Your accessories will run better (faster) and SHOULD draw less amperage.
March 25, 2020, 07:24 PM
green1Well to give you a little heads up the same people make turbo start charges as xs Powermaster. Go ahead and look at them exactly the same except for the name.
March 25, 2020, 07:26 PM
Big Stevequote:
Originally posted by Curly1:
I have the XS power 16 volt battery and had a problem with it. I talked to them and sent it back in. They were very good and sent me a new one.
I will say one thing about the 16 volt batteries my opinion. They will spin over FASTER so it usually starts faster but I do not know that the overall power is any better. That is it may start faster and better but maybe not as many times if it is not charged.
16 volt batteries can act like your lithium battery on your drill if they are not charged, 1 minute they work next minute they don't. Really important to keep the charger plugged in at the track and at home 24/7. The smart charger sold by XS, Moroso/Rock all have renders and go into float mode to maintain charge
March 25, 2020, 07:41 PM
markemarkquote:
Originally posted by Bob Nichols:
The bigger advantage is for MSD minimum required voltage. If you look at the doc it needs a 11v (I think) to operate properly. By the time you turn on all your accessories, a 12v system could draw down and be close to MSD minimum. The 16 volt system will hold enough voltage to run the MSD properly.
In some of the MSD Analog Ignitions, the ignition will deliver full output voltage with a supply of 10 - 18 volts, and some will deliver full voltage at 9 volts per their instructions.
The Grid 7720 Ignitions, will deliver full voltage with a supply of 10 - 18 volts and will operate with a supply voltage as low as 5 volts.
MSD recommends landing the positive and negative ignition power feeds directly to the battery. Not only is this the point of least noise interference, it also provides the maximum voltage when the battery is under load during starter operation.
March 26, 2020, 06:59 AM
CURTIS REEDDoes anyone know WHY a 16v battery acts like it does? They just add another cell to get the 16v so why does it change to more of a lithium like reaction to running low? I've always wondered that.
Curtis
____________________________
2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 26, 2020, 10:21 AM
green1I am gonna venture to say because it is 4 volts higher that the system it is running is designed for. The extra voltage keeps things going just a little linger when it is highly discharged then it falls flat. Just my thought.
March 26, 2020, 12:11 PM
Wild Wild West 2I don't think a 16 volt battery is just "one more cell" than a 12 volt battery. If I remember correctly, a 12 volt battery has 6 cells that should measure 2.2 volts each at full charge. That will give a total of 13.2 volts on a fully charged 12 volt battery. (2.2 x 6 = 13.2)
If the 16 volt battery is the same cell voltage, then it would be 2.2 volts x 7 cells = 15.4 volts
If this logic is true, it would be considered a 14 volt battery ?
I thought most all 16 volt batteries were lithium batteries ??? Then again, I still run 12 volt batteries.
March 26, 2020, 12:47 PM
CURTIS REEDquote:
Originally posted by Wild Wild West 2:
I don't think a 16 volt battery is just "one more cell" than a 12 volt battery. If I remember correctly, a 12 volt battery has 6 cells that should measure 2.2 volts each at full charge. That will give a total of 13.2 volts on a fully charged 12 volt battery. (2.2 x 6 = 13.2)
If the 16 volt battery is the same cell voltage, then it would be 2.2 volts x 7 cells = 15.4 volts
If this logic is true, it would be considered a 14 volt battery ?
I thought most all 16 volt batteries were lithium batteries ??? Then again, I still run 12 volt batteries.
Oops, you are correct. It is 2 more cells not one more cell. Sorry.
____________________________
2017 and 2018 Osage Casinos Tulsa Raceway Park No-Box Champion
2018 Div4 Goodguys Hammer award winner
March 26, 2020, 04:00 PM
green1They are not lithium, they are AGM. I live 5 miles from the old turbo start where it all started and was running the AGM version before they were available to the public, I had an inside connection.
March 26, 2020, 05:31 PM
27KeithMy question is this, why is the reserve capacity on a 16v battery so much less than a 12v ? Its like almost half ! This goes along with the earlier post about acting like a Lithium battery, when in fact its just less RC. If they add 2 cells to get the 16v why does it not add to the RC also, instead of diminish it ?
4 X Track Champion ( 2 & 2 )
2 X Run off Winner
March 26, 2020, 10:00 PM
Curly1quote:
Originally posted by 27Keith:
My question is this, why is the reserve capacity on a 16v battery so much less than a 12v ? Its like almost half ! This goes along with the earlier post about acting like a Lithium battery, when in fact its just less RC. If they add 2 cells to get the 16v why does it not add to the RC also, instead of diminish it ?
I think the Reserve Capacity is part of the key. 16 volts will spin it over faster but Reserve Capacity is the "energy"? that it has available.
In any case yes I keep my battery on charger all the time and I use the XS Power one.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/np3zpruo/"Dunning-Kruger Effect"
-a type of Cognitive bias where people with little expertise or ability assume they have superior expertise or ability. This overestimation occurs as a result of the fact that they do not have enough knowledge to know they don't have enough knowledge.
Before you argue with someone ask yourself, "Is this person mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of a different perspective?" If not there is no point to argue.
4X NE2 CHAMPION. 2020 TDRA NE2 Champion
March 27, 2020, 07:02 AM
Wild Wild West 2Is it possible that on a 16 volt battery, if they just add 2 more cells to the standard 12 volt battery for a total of 8 cells, they have to make those 8 cells smaller in size (area) in order to maintain the same external physical size of the battery ? That would account for the reduced reserve capacity.
March 29, 2020, 07:39 AM
CashflowMy XS Power battery is on it’s 8th season. I use an Autometer maintainer on it all the time. YMMV
Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right. Here I am.......
March 29, 2020, 11:34 AM
Ole GoatBeen racing the same car for 30 + yrs
Started out running one battery but as H P increased I found that two battery's worked MUCH BETTER .
Been running two Yellow gel cell Optimum battery's for yrs. The pair I currently have is around 9 yrs old
I keep them on a maintainer 24/7
I do charge them in-between rounds but
I've never had a problem making round robin calls when racing -- if its not broke don't fix it
Never seen a need for 16 V
March 29, 2020, 12:14 PM
green1quote:
Originally posted by 27Keith:
My question is this, why is the reserve capacity on a 16v battery so much less than a 12v ? Its like almost half ! This goes along with the earlier post about acting like a Lithium battery, when in fact its just less RC. If they add 2 cells to get the 16v why does it not add to the RC also, instead of diminish it ?
Here’s a little challenge, compare the weight of the 12 volt battery to 16 volt battery that you are comparing reserve capacity.
In batteries to increase voltage you hook more cells or batteries in series which increases voltage but to increase capacity you hook them in parallel which would maintain same voltage but increase capacity.
In the racing world everybody is after light weight and to do that with a battery you sacrifice reserve capacity in the lead acid types.
March 29, 2020, 02:36 PM
Bucky24v would be better yet right?
Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
March 29, 2020, 07:27 PM
green1Well sure would crank fast. I am using a 16 volt to start my old tractor that has 6 volt system, just using 16 volts at starter and man does it start easy.
