It is amazing how people believe everything that comes out of thier mouth. Even with everything that is happening they just don't see the results of the admin's actions.

How many jobs are really created?

Even though the stimulas money is out there it is for Unions only on all federal jobs. It doesn't state it has to be a union but it has to pay union wages and abide by the Collective Bargaining agreement that the unions have. Obamer also stated that he 'encourages' all to use union labor. That spells payback to the union for votes PERIOD.

It is worth noting that the first President Bush prohibited project labor agreements on federal projects in 1992. President Clinton reversed that policy shortly after taking office in 1993. The second President Bush put it back in 2001. Now Obama has returned to Clinton’s policy. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that pattern reflects ideological differences or "paybacks."

Their defense is that the wages couild possibly be brought down in that particular area, WELL GUESS WHAT: It is worth what someone will do it for, Just like selling something is worth what someone will pay for it. If the quality is the same, the requirements are met and one company can do it for 40% less then that is the company I want doing it !!!!! It is called competition in the workplace. It is called free enterprise. What the administration is trying to implement is socialism (government directed)at its very core.

WAKE UP PEOPLE

No jobs have been created, if any, they have been lost.

Two new houses were burned this past Sunday night and the fire chief said they were set. Duh, you know why don't you..

[URL= ].[/URL]

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:
It is amazing how people believe everything that comes out of thier mouth. Even with everything that is happening they just don't see the results of the admin's actions.

How many jobs are really created?

Even though the stimulas money is out there it is for Unions only on all federal jobs. It doesn't state it has to be a union but it has to pay union wages and abide by the Collective Bargaining agreement that the unions have. Obamer also stated that he 'encourages' all to use union labor. That spells payback to the union for votes PERIOD.

It is worth noting that the first President Bush prohibited project labor agreements on federal projects in 1992. President Clinton reversed that policy shortly after taking office in 1993. The second President Bush put it back in 2001. Now Obama has returned to Clinton’s policy. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that pattern reflects ideological differences or "paybacks."

Their defense is that the wages couild possibly be brought down in that particular area, WELL GUESS WHAT: It is worth what someone will do it for, Just like selling something is worth what someone will pay for it. If the quality is the same, the requirements are met and one company can do it for 40% less then that is the company I want doing it !!!!! It is called competition in the workplace. It is called free enterprise. What the administration is trying to implement is socialism (government directed)at its very core.

WAKE UP PEOPLE

It is called prevailing wage.This is good for construction workers.They get union wages with the benefit package money being paid to them in a seperate check as well.How it remains fair is this,when the bid package is put out there for companies to bid on the work..there is a clause that you must pay each employee"prevailing wage".The wages are usually spelled out.If they are not,it is very simple to find out for the bidding contractor.As for the 40% cheaper comment...This wage rule actually helps the legit businesses.Companys who hire illegals and pay them pennies cant outbid a company who has "Americans"with insurance and retirement benefits and all the other things that come with a career.The guy who hires the immigrants illegals has to pay like all the legal companies.He also has to turn in proof of each employee and prove he paid them the prevailing wage.Which in turn means there will be no illegals taking American jobs on those job sites.So there is always the other side of the story.Oh yea,I am by no means an Obama supporter.I just happen to support better wages for my fellow American citizens.

I can understand the better wages for our citizens but if another guy can bid the job 20-40% cheaper then why not let him get the bid, do the work and the ramaing money be used for additional projects. Or here is an idea, give it back to us.
The illegal hiring is something that needs to be taken care of and all need to take care of that. I do not condone it and I wish they would put all of them on a bus and send them back.
BUT, the fact still remains is that he would have to turn in proff of these employees so he couldn't make it around the system. You know as well as I do that a union wage is way higher than a standard wage. Would I rather have 15 guys working on a project or 10, it would be 15, they would all get less than this mandated wage but they would be paid FAIR MARKET VALUE. Just like the rest of us are paid.

Ive heard ads for years that say the job is done better if its union. No one has ever been able to explain to me why paying more for a job makes it better. Just because Joe Public gets charged more the roads suddenly dont have potholes? Have ya been in Chicago lately? I know thats all union work and its expensive but I can also tell the worker has absolutely no pride in his work whatsoever. If they did the roads would be smooth. Some of those repairs are rougher than the potholes were.

Here is the thing, there are some people who work in the union structure that put out great product but most don't because they have big brother there. They also have a wage base that is significantly higher than the other non-skilled labor in the area. This is not 'fair market value' it is inflated value. The unions were created because there was a need, now there are many laws on the books to keep any of that from happening. Now, the unions are a hinderence to all business. they are counter productive for ANYONE outside the union. What about someone who wants to work at a facility that has a union? THEY HAVE TO BECOME PART OF THE UNION TO WORK THERE. Doesn't that seem strange and unethical? Being forced into an organization THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY TO BE A MEMBER.

The union keeps me out of working certain jobs or even bidding on them. Im self employed and dont have any employees. So I guess Id have to be a member of the union so I can have representation to my boss. I need the union to negotiate for me to get a better wage from me???

The unions started out for a good cause. They now have too much power and are a stumbling block in a growing business.

The unions now take care of the union leadership, the druggies, drunks, thieves, slackers and awols!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speaking of lies, the cowardly 0boy administration is going to have to do a better job of lying about the economy! Guess thay must have thought the average citizen was as easily bamboozled as their testicle swinging sycophants if they thought the lies about the supposedly improving economy were going to inspire consumer confidence!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:
I can understand the better wages for our citizens but if another guy can bid the job 20-40% cheaper then why not let him get the bid, do the work and the ramaing money be used for additional projects. Or here is an idea, give it back to us.
The illegal hiring is something that needs to be taken care of and all need to take care of that. I do not condone it and I wish they would put all of them on a bus and send them back.
BUT, the fact still remains is that he would have to turn in proff of these employees so he couldn't make it around the system. You know as well as I do that a union wage is way higher than a standard wage. Would I rather have 15 guys working on a project or 10, it would be 15, they would all get less than this mandated wage but they would be paid FAIR MARKET VALUE. Just like the rest of us are paid.

The prevailing wage deal has zero to do with unions.It is when a job is out for bid and all employees get paid what the local union wages are.Its just an employee pay scale stipulation.Our truck drivers get a base pay of $17.50 an hour to haul away our demolition debris and various metals.When we get on a prevailing wage job there pay goes up to around $27 an hour.This raise in hourly scale was calculated into our bid package before we got the job.The institution that wants the job done pays the difference because all contractors who bid the job put these pay scales in there estimates.So in reality everybody is on the same wage page,therefore eliminating the companies who usually get jobs because they have 20 illegals working for $3.00 an hour.Versus a legit company who pay employees fair money plus benefits.The prevailing plan is solid.It might not create new jobs,but it keeps American citizens working.The prevailing structure that is presented in our field of work absolutly eliminates the possibility of any illegal freeloaders doing any of the work.All employees are turned in to the govt.If you work someone without reporting them it is 1 million dollar fine and you forfeit your right to ever bid a govt job again.

Blame this on Bush also..You nim-wits..Larry. tag-a-long and announcer should be able to move on up now..LMAO


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33...usiness-real_estate/


[URL= ].[/URL]

[URL= ].[/URL]

quote:

Originally posted by onebaddragracer:

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:

The prevailing wage deal has zero to do with unions.It is when a job is out for bid and all employees get paid what the local union wages are.

This one statement shows that it does have everything to do with the unions. You even stated it "employees get paid what the local union wages are". What about the consumer and the tax payer paying what the FAIR MARKET VALUE is. You just stated it, you typically pay 17.50 but have to pay $27 and hour. That additional 9.50 an hour is coming out of my and your pocket. It is also costing more in tax and also keeping more from getting done. That is over %50 increase just in the labor portion of these projects. That means that you can actually get a 1/3 more done if we didn't have this, OR, HERE IS A GREAT IDEA, GIVE IT BACK TO THE TAX PAYERS. The regulations would still be the same, you still have to file all of your employees. If you don't think that a guy will have illegals working for him just for this fact you are living in LaLa land. There are ways around it, all we are doing is getting charged MORE THAN FAIR MARKET VALUE for the work that is being performed.

Hey Bozman,

The difference is that a guy making $17 an hour can only afford to exist.

A guy making $27 an hour, can spend some money and still keep a roof over his head.

And when a working man can afford to spend a little money, everyone benifits. Not just the wealthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Hoskinson 3152:
Hey Bozman,

The difference is that a guy making $17 an hour can only afford to exist.

A guy making $27 an hour, can spend some money and still keep a roof over his head.

And when a working man can afford to spend a little money, everyone benifits. Not just the wealthy.

Bill,
I am not questioning quality of life or anything of the sort. A guy at McDonalds is in a worse boat. The issue here is the fact that you are paying for a service that is ABOVE THE FAIR MARKET VALUE for that service. The fact that OneBad stated he pays his people 17.50 and hour, that is the Fair Market Value. The fact that the government will state that his value is higher BASED ON UNION WAGES in the area is rediculous. That is not fair market value. If you go to buy a car, a haircut, groceries, or anything else you purchase, are you going to pay %50 more for it becuase the guy says that he is making more money than the guy down the street.
Economics drives this country, supply and demand. The ****her we get away from that the closer we come to socialism, everyone gets the same except for the elite few regardless of education, skillset or productivity. It goes against what our country was founded on and why other countries envy our free market system.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Hoskinson 3152:
Hey Bozman,

The difference is that a guy making $17 an hour can only afford to exist.

A guy making $27 an hour, can spend some money and still keep a roof over his head.

And when a working man can afford to spend a little money, everyone benifits. Not just the wealthy.

This is very true,If our guys get on 2 or 3 prevail jobs a year it allows them to afford a vacation that normally isnt possible,or a much needed roof or whatever.another hidden thing that bozman hasnt stated yet is this.The employees get the $27 an hour on there paycheck,they also get another $10 an hour put into a seperate account.This $10 is the hourly benefit package money that would have went to a union workers pension,insurance,healthfund,vacation..whatever.Our company puts the $10 an hour from each employee in a huntington bank account.In february they give each person a check for the amount in which they are owed per the hours they worked on prevail jobs.My racing buddy truckdriver was on a prevail job for about 4 months last year,he got a check for $6,500.Now that is a good deal for all involved.I know that some will say the govt could do more if this wasnt costing double or triple money.Unfortunatly the govt will always waste money on everything they control.Atleast on prevail jobs real Americans benefit from these kickbacks.

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:

quote:

Originally posted by onebaddragracer:

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:

The prevailing wage deal has zero to do with unions.It is when a job is out for bid and all employees get paid what the local union wages are.

This one statement shows that it does have everything to do with the unions. You even stated it "employees get paid what the local union wages are". What about the consumer and the tax payer paying what the FAIR MARKET VALUE is. You just stated it, you typically pay 17.50 but have to pay $27 and hour. That additional 9.50 an hour is coming out of my and your pocket. It is also costing more in tax and also keeping more from getting done. That is over %50 increase just in the labor portion of these projects. That means that you can actually get a 1/3 more done if we didn't have this, OR, HERE IS A GREAT IDEA, GIVE IT BACK TO THE TAX PAYERS. The regulations would still be the same, you still have to file all of your employees. If you don't think that a guy will have illegals working for him just for this fact you are living in LaLa land. There are ways around it, all we are doing is getting charged MORE THAN FAIR MARKET VALUE for the work that is being performed.

Who says what market value is?I sometimes handle explosives,Im always climbing around on rickety structures as we bring them down,More often than not I am out in the open over 50 feet in the air as I am bringing down the very structure I am standing on.So with that being said,My market value is every dollar I can get.The American way is to provide for your family and the more money we get the better quality of life we can provide for our family.I say the working man is intitled to all he can get,it is the welfare slobs that are the ones that irritate me to no end,that makes me angry just typing about it.

Isen't this part of BH's territory. Just wondering...Hmmm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...newsSectionContent.1

Stimulus jobs overstated by thousands

WASHINGTON (AP) -- An early progress report on President Barack Obama's economic recovery plan overstates by thousands the number of jobs created or saved through the stimulus program, a mistake that White House officials promise will be corrected in future reports.

The AP review found some counts were more than 10 times as high as the actual number of jobs; some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two and sometimes more than four times; and other jobs were credited to stimulus spending when none was produced.

For example:

-- A company working with the Federal Communications Commission reported that stimulus money paid for 4,231 jobs, when about 1,000 were produced.

-- A Georgia community college reported creating 280 jobs with recovery money, but none was created from stimulus spending.

-- A Florida child care center said its stimulus money saved 129 jobs but used the money on raises for existing employees.

There's no evidence the White House sought to inflate job numbers in the report. But administration officials seized on the 30,000 figure as evidence that the stimulus program was on its way toward fulfilling the president's promise of creating or saving 3.5 million jobs by the end of next year.

The reporting problem could be magnified Friday when a much larger round of reports is expected to show hundreds of thousands of jobs repairing public housing, building schools, repaving highways and keeping teachers on local payrolls.

Stimulus jobs overstated by thousands







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quote:

Originally posted by onebaddragracer:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Hoskinson 3152:
Hey Bozman,

The difference is that a guy making $17 an hour can only afford to exist.

A guy making $27 an hour, can spend some money and still keep a roof over his head.

And when a working man can afford to spend a little money, everyone benifits. Not just the wealthy.

This is very true,If our guys get on 2 or 3 prevail jobs a year it allows them to afford a vacation that normally isnt possible,or a much needed roof or whatever.another hidden thing that bozman hasnt stated yet is this.The employees get the $27 an hour on there paycheck,they also get another $10 an hour put into a seperate account.This $10 is the hourly benefit package money that would have went to a union workers pension,insurance,healthfund,vacation..whatever.Our company puts the $10 an hour from each employee in a huntington bank account.In february they give each person a check for the amount in which they are owed per the hours they worked on prevail jobs.My racing buddy truckdriver was on a prevail job for about 4 months last year,he got a check for $6,500.Now that is a good deal for all involved.I know that some will say the govt could do more if this wasnt costing double or triple money.Unfortunatly the govt will always waste money on everything they control.Atleast on prevail jobs real Americans benefit from these kickbacks.

There are two fundamentally flawed thoughts here, one is that they are worth more than what YOU are paying them. If it was better somewhere else then they would go there. Fair market value dictates salaries and cost. The other issue is the fact you think it is great that they get this big check on top of getting paid %50 more than they would if it was a standard job. But since it if government then it is OK, WRONG, the reason being is that every taxpayer has to pay that extra amount. So what you are doing is taking it out of one American's hands and putting it into anothers. We all work very hard for our money, we all get paid fair market value, except the unionized jobs, I shouldn't be footing the bill for another guys vacation. That person made the choice to do what he is doing and has accepted the wage that is fair market value. The sicking thing is you guys think it is OK to get extra money from the government, I guess it is free to you guys but it comes right out of my check every month. This is absolute waist in its truest form.
I am not saying your job isn't dangerous or complex. What I am saying is fair market value dictates what it is. Just like a plumber, a grocery store clerk, a banker, engineer or anyone else. The fact is you choose to do that line of employment, if you want more than you can choose another one that pays more, but don't expect me to pay extra just so you or anyone else can get a bigger check JUST BECAUSE IT IS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT

quote:

Originally posted by The Bozman:


There are two fundamentally flawed thoughts here, one is that they are worth more than what YOU are paying them. If it was better somewhere else then they would go there. Fair market value dictates salaries and cost. The other issue is the fact you think it is great that they get this big check on top of getting paid %50 more than they would if it was a standard job. But since it if government then it is OK, WRONG, the reason being is that every taxpayer has to pay that extra amount. So what you are doing is taking it out of one American's hands and putting it into anothers. We all work very hard for our money, we all get paid fair market value, except the unionized jobs, I shouldn't be footing the bill for another guys vacation. That person made the choice to do what he is doing and has accepted the wage that is fair market value. The sicking thing is you guys think it is OK to get extra money from the government, I guess it is free to you guys but it comes right out of my check every month. This is absolute waist in its truest form.
I am not saying your job isn't dangerous or complex. What I am saying is fair market value dictates what it is. Just like a plumber, a grocery store clerk, a banker, engineer or anyone else. The fact is you choose to do that line of employment, if you want more than you can choose another one that pays more, but don't expect me to pay extra just so you or anyone else can get a bigger check JUST BECAUSE IT IS COMING FROM THE GOVERNMENT

Dang Boz...I knew there was a very good reason I liked you...WELL SAID..

Dave

I know you are out there BD..I can feel your beady little eyes through my monitor..LMAO

So what is the going union wages you are willing to pay me to sit with you and help you count your money??
I'd like to be overpaid if you don't mind..

Heading back home (Texas)in a few weeks..

Dave