quote:

Earl Hopper, Jr.'s father is Earl Hopper, Sr., a retired US Army Reserve colonel. Hopper is a mental midget who has made quite a reputation for himself as an MIA activist. This article tells the entire Hopper story -- read it as I am not going to repeat the story here.

The important part of this story involves Earl Hopper, Sr., and a woman named Patty Skelly. Hopper and Skelly are the sole members of an organization that they call Task Force Omega -- TFO consists of Skelly, Hopper, and an Internet connection, though they would have you believe that they are legion. Hopper and Skelly met in the mid-1980s and soon were an item among MIA families -- basically, old Earl was using MIA family activities as an excuse to bonk Patty -- all the while his wife, Earl, Jr.'s mother, Betty -- was fully aware of this but was powerless to do anything about it. While I was assigned to the DIA POW-MIA Office, I spoke at many family member meetings, some of them attended by Hopper, Skelly, and Betty Hopper. After hours at these meetings, some of the family members would talk to me informally and many of them were upset with the way Hopper and Skelly were making no attempt to hide their affair and with the way Hopper was treating Betty. Betty Hopper died in 1998 or 1999 -- I forget which -- and Hopper and Skelly are now married.

Hopper claims to have extensive experience in Army intelligence. This is typical of his lies and misrepresentations. In his last job in the Army, Hopper was assigned as Director of Intelligence and Security at a small Army base -- this is a typical retirement assignment because it requires no real activity, leaving the incumbent free to concentrate on retiring. Such positions have no real intelligence duties -- but Hopper would have you believe that he was a colleague of Agent 007. In his dreams. One DIA admiral, a man with long experience in the intelligence field, and a man who had considerable dealings with Hopper, gave me this assessment of Earl Hopper, Sr: "He couldn't pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the sole."

Now, in November 2000, I have been sent a couple of e-mail messages originated by Patty Skelly. It seems that she is claiming that David Nelson, aircraft commander of Phoenix 16, was not killed in the explosion of his aircraft and she has taken it upon herself to lecture combat aviators about what they saw and what they know of the loss of Phoenix 16. Here are copies of the e-mails between Patty Skelly and a guy who flew helicopters for three combat tours. These e-mails are reproduced here exactly as Skelly sent them; the only change is that I have inserted (sic) at her grammatical errors and deleted the name of the guy involved. (Note: Skelly signs herself variously as Patty Skelly Hopper, Patty B. Hopper, and Patty Hopper -- whatever, it's the same old ****.)

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'Collaborations with the enemy’?

The flyer was sent to about 80 media organizations in South Carolina and is posted on the group’s Web site. The flyer probably would have been ignored, but the McCain campaign issued a statement calling it “a vicious attack.”

The flyer has a caricature of a surly-looking McCain in a prison cell under the words, “Hanoi Hilton Songbird.” The second page is headlined “FACT SHEET: Military Record of John Sidney McCain III” and it begins with some accurate biographical information.

The flyer contains 1½ pages of criticisms of McCain, but only a few support the accusation that he was helping the enemy:

• That he told his captors “Okay, I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.”

• That the Hanoi news media reported he had given information about his flight, rescue ships and the order of U.S. attacks.

• That he broke the military code because he answered questions from a Spanish psychiatrist who had apparently been cooperating with the North Vietnamese.

There is some truth to these claims, but collectively they do not prove McCain was involved in “collaborations with the enemy,” as the flyer alleges.

In his memoir Faith of My Fathers, McCain says that he initially offered the information because he was badly injured and afraid of dying. But, he wrote, “I didn’t intend to keep my word.”

When he was later interrogated, McCain gave his ship’s name and squadron number and confirmed the target of his failed mission, he wrote. He also gave the names of the Green Bay Packers’ offensive line and said they were members of his squadron.

Asked to identify future targets, he mentioned North Vietnamese cities that U.S. planes had already bombed.

George “Bud” Day and Orson Swindle, fellow POWs, told PolitiFact that POWs sometimes were forced to talk when they were tortured, but they tried to tell lies to mislead their captors.

“We were all tortured and we wrote confessions under the pressure of torture,” said Swindle, who was a cellmate with McCain and is active in his campaign. “John McCain never collaborated with the enemy. He, like every one of us, submitted to severe torture. John McCain did nothing dishonorable. He was heroic.”

At one point, McCain broke down and signed a confession. But Timberg, the biographer, said McCain deliberately used misspellings, grammatical errors and Communist jargon to show he was writing under duress: “I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died, and the Vietnamese people saved my life . . . ”

Day, a Medal of Honor winner who also is supporting McCain’s campaign, said the flyer is “the most outrageous f------ lie I’ve ever heard.”

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She cited as evidence for Hopper’s charges a 1973 article by McCain that ran in U.S. News and World Report and what she said were “declassified U.S. military documents” she claimed to possess describing McCain’s collaboration. Patty Hopper said she was away from her Arizona home and could not fax those documents.

But the 1973 article does not back up the charges made in the flyer. It provides the same basic account as McCain’s book, corroborated by Timberg’s book, which was based on interviews with many POWs.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill



A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

quote:

Originally posted by ihrabob:
Dave.. McCain is a hero in my eyes and because I posted the link doesn't mean I support it.
Always 2 sides to every story and I will give your BP exercise.

What is the issue is there seem to be alot of Vietnam Veterans who believe McManiac is a Traitor in their eyes.
These accusations didn't surface yesterday.

I realise they have been ongoing..But I also realise the accusations are based on assumptions and not fact..The ones closest to the issue refute those who seem to dislike McCain.

Who would have a better right (no pun intended ) to voice an opinion than a returning Vietnam Veteran.

Anyone can voice an opinion..Its when its stated as fact that causes problems.. Just because someone served in Vietnam doesn't mean they were witness to what went on everywhere. Opinions are always welcome, as long they are stated as opinions it becomes a problem when opinions become used as proof something in fact occured.

I suppose if Fox News was behind the story, you would agree. No political ties or wacko money based on their bias either.
LMAO

I didn't know Fox news had anything to do with this conversation??

When the other organizations start reporting the news and not editorializing everything, then I might start watching. I don't need someone to tell me what to think about what they are reporting "We report YOU decide..

Besides, I hadn't heard they had fabricated the news like the other organizations have.

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -Winston Churchill



A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Beard:
Oh, BULL$&*! It IS simple. His parents were citizens, so is he.

As a corollary, also BULL$&*!: anchor babies. If illegal immigrants have a child in the U.S., that child is of the same nationality as the parents.

End of story.

(FYI, not a McCain fan. I am however, a fan of common sense, and trying to make an issue out of this is ridiculous.)

(FYI2 - related to the corollary, did Hillary actually say she would do nothing about sanctuary cities? Are you KIDDING me?)

$.02,