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Tracks with successful Q16 programs?
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DRR All Star
posted
What are the keys to success? Our track had a q8/8. The door cars didn't want to race dragsters in the final. And thus the door car side was always short. So they went q16. Had some sponsorship, but the track didn't really give it love, and the car counts dwindled. It became unprofitable, and was eventually dropped.

New track ownership this year, and they are looking for fresh starts, but certainly don't want to invest in a losing proposition. What keys to success have you seen in good q16 programs? What payout amounts and structure? How many events per year?
Do they run them on the same day as regular points or different days? Our track actually can run eighth or quarter. What goes over bigger as a rule?
Is the pdra or the adrl thing, still a thing? Is it going well and looking for new venues?


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I do not get the door car fear of dragster deal...this year every q16 final i attended the door cars kicked butt
 
Posts: 1371 | Location: united states | Registered: January 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR All Star
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quote:
Originally posted by jenavet:
I do not get the door car fear of dragster deal...this year every q16 final i attended the door cars kicked butt


The door cars have done well at the big money races for sure as well. I don't get it either.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
DRR Sportsman
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The good part about a quick door car race is it has the potential to bring spectators. Door Car 4.50 index with an outlaw quick 8 would be a great show.

Then run a bracket program to fill the gap, and try to get interest in the weekly program.

Loud blown pro top outlaw style dragsters mixed with altereds would be cool too.
 
Posts: 567 | Location: UTD | Registered: September 25, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I believe the quick programs can't pay enough to bring out the truly quick cars, and when there aren't a full field of true quick style cars, then you get the outlier quicker bracket cars that drop in run. I know from experience when you are a 3.8x dragster, racing a 4.40 car, it just sucks knowing you are putting wear and tear on an expensive program as well as the added expense of building a true "quick" car to run someones weekly bracket car.

I know its a catch 22, if the quick cars came out, there would be full fields, but I dont feel there are enough cars in a realistic travel distance to most q8/q16 events to pull full fields with the payouts promoters are able to put out there. Also overlaying those quick programs on top, or a week before or after a major event (NHRA or PDRA) doesnt bode well for a good turnout either.
 
Posts: 63 | Location: youngstown, oh | Registered: February 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian McHattie:
I believe the quick programs can't pay enough to bring out the truly quick cars, and when there aren't a full field of true quick style cars, then you get the outlier quicker bracket cars that drop in run. I know from experience when you are a 3.8x dragster, racing a 4.40 car, it just sucks knowing you are putting wear and tear on an expensive program as well as the added expense of building a true "quick" car to run someones weekly bracket car.

I know its a catch 22, if the quick cars came out, there would be full fields, but I dont feel there are enough cars in a realistic travel distance to most q8/q16 events to pull full fields with the payouts promoters are able to put out there. Also overlaying those quick programs on top, or a week before or after a major event (NHRA or PDRA) doesnt bode well for a good turnout either.


A 4.40 car must be what a 6.80's quarter car? That's a pretty quick bracket car even today isn't it?
I don't think my local track wants to try to make a show of it. Just something for the local fast racers to stretch their legs at. There is probably a reason or reasons it hasn't worked well in the past. You are right....payout is an issue. If you charge $100, and get 16 cars, the total revenue is 1600. Not really enough to make winner and runner up happy.And nothing for semi's nor the track for that matter. Charge 150 and get the track a little something for their efforts, and the payout still kinda sucks.

I don't know the answer. Sponsors help these programs of course. But if cars don't show up, what is the point?

I thought maybe a tire limited class would work. But I'm not sure there would be any interest in it. There are probably 6 legitimate fast cars in the near area. A good numbers of "and alsos" like myself that are only into the 6's by a little. We can't even put together a more popular race with 16 cars in the 6's.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here's what we have seen. We have now and have had a TS and TD series.

Based on my experience you will never consistently fill a Q8 or 16 anything, period. No one wants to enter a race that they may not qualify for!!! So that's the killer. I could see more trying if the reward was high enough but without a big sponsor, there's just not enough cars to generate the reward! So they need to be all run deals! As for combining TS and TD, we experienced the same BS where TS don't want to run TD! Why, I have no friggin idea! A good dragster is no better than a good door car. Ya the dragster has a better view...

You can generate a decent payout with 16 plus cars and sponsorship of around 400 a race. It's not hard to get a sponsor per race for that amount.

Hope this helps somewhat.
 
Posts: 1903 | Location: Tewksbury, MA,USA | Registered: November 03, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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IMO…if you’re doing it for –or- not for, because of the purse $$...you’re involved in bracket racing for the wrong reasons.

Although….I certainly agree with this - [QUOTE: No one wants to enter a race that they may not qualify for!!! So that's the killer. I could see more trying if the reward was high enough but without a big sponsor, there's just not enough cars to generate the reward! :QUOTE]

I feel the first thing that needs done is a self-sustaining program, you can forget about putting “butts in the bleachers” regardless of the ETs to do that, the culture of drag racing has changed…and ya can’t fix that. People want to see a “show” and unfortunately that’s not bracket racing. Bottom line is that the spectator can’t see a couple of tenths from their view nor do they care, a 3.80 bump provides no more of a show to them than a 4.50 bump.

My home track has really been doing just that, the purse structure gets some sponsorship help, but the purse is realistic with the expected car counts. No owner or promoter can increase the purse because the guy/gal with the 500K plus operation may get trailered by the racer with a 60K operation….its bracket racing. You have to have a guaranteed purse to get anyone to show and in the examples above, the 150.00 entry and small sponsor support will fill those 16 spots (16 each in open and door with separate payouts at my HT).

The bumps are quite quick at times and about the only correlation on the car counts ("true quick car" - lol ) I can see is the weather. Sometimes the events are somewhat slow even in good weather, I feel that is probably because of scheduling conflicts with other event choices. I’m not a promoter obviously, but what I can see looking in from the outside seems to be every time they have a quick series event, the purse is self-sustained from the entries and the additional revenue from the family and friends attending bring up that bottom line – a win for the track.

Another thing they have done in the past, but don’t advertise is the consolation races, kind of a “on the spot” decision made by the track if they have enough entries that did not qualify. This would be an all run and typically a gamblers race purse structure or they may let the DNQs drop into the regular bracket 1 class. Either way, you get to race and have some fun.


Jerry Kathe
 
Posts: 138 | Location: SW Ohio | Registered: November 11, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great replies everyone. thanks for the feedback!


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is the program i have used at some tracks for quick events. We normally get the track or a sponsor to pick up what isnt covered in entries.
This is per 8 cars, and allows cars and dragsters to run seperate. This makes for a fun race, that pays decent for 5 runs total if you win or runner up. If racers decide to double in super pro and the quick, the racer has to buy both tech cards when he comes in the gate. Racers do not run in super pro UNTIL they lose, then they go into the SAME round of super pro that they lost in the quick. The winner of the quick race, gets to show up to the NEXT round of super pro (4th round).
150 entry
1000 to win
400 runner up
150 to losers at 4.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 545 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
This is the program i have used at some tracks for quick events. We normally get the track or a sponsor to pick up what isnt covered in entries.
This is per 8 cars, and allows cars and dragsters to run seperate. This makes for a fun race, that pays decent for 5 runs total if you win or runner up. If racers decide to double in super pro and the quick, the racer has to buy both tech cards when he comes in the gate. Racers do not run in super pro UNTIL they lose, then they go into the SAME round of super pro that they lost in the quick. The winner of the quick race, gets to show up to the NEXT round of super pro (4th round).
150 entry
1000 to win
400 runner up
150 to losers at 4.


Trying to make sure I understand. So it's 8/8 separate until the finals? How do they get five runs? Does that include at least one round of sp? And only if they bought both cards?
It's an interesting twist for those who aren't running points in sp.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PDRA has NO shortage of cars period and is by far the best go quick bracket series. research it and you will see 4.00 or quicker bumps for elite 16 and the 32 car bump 4.40ish or quicker. non qualifiers roll over into the bracket race. i pushed for a deal like 329l mentions but it was poorly received by local tracks.
 
Posts: 1118 | Location: middle georgia | Registered: July 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 329L
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
quote:
Originally posted by 329L:
This is the program i have used at some tracks for quick events. We normally get the track or a sponsor to pick up what isnt covered in entries.
This is per 8 cars, and allows cars and dragsters to run seperate. This makes for a fun race, that pays decent for 5 runs total if you win or runner up. If racers decide to double in super pro and the quick, the racer has to buy both tech cards when he comes in the gate. Racers do not run in super pro UNTIL they lose, then they go into the SAME round of super pro that they lost in the quick. The winner of the quick race, gets to show up to the NEXT round of super pro (4th round).
150 entry
1000 to win
400 runner up
150 to losers at 4.


Trying to make sure I understand. So it's 8/8 separate until the finals? How do they get five runs? Does that include at least one round of sp? And only if they bought both cards?
It's an interesting twist for those who aren't running points in sp.


It is 2 seperate quick 8s, one for dragsters and one for door cars
2 time runs and 3 rounds (8 car ladder)
So if you buy both card when you come in the gate you are entered into 2 classes. So to keep the fast guys showing up, you allow there win to count in both classes, and if they lose, they go right into the same round of super pro, so that car would have a really quick turn around.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 545 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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329L...So you qualify for the Q8 car field with the 2 time runs? If you don't make the Q8 field you race first round S/P only if you bought 2 entries at the Gate when you arrived?? Is this correct
 
Posts: 204 | Location: North Royalton Ohio US*** | Registered: January 08, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by 67TSCHEVY2:
PDRA has NO shortage of cars period and is by far the best go quick bracket series. research it and you will see 4.00 or quicker bumps for elite 16 and the 32 car bump 4.40ish or quicker. non qualifiers roll over into the bracket race. i pushed for a deal like 329l mentions but it was poorly received by local tracks.


The thing about PDRA is that local support isn't completely needed. And it is only once a year locally.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Coloradoracer
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We have the Fast 16/Quick 16 program here. It's pretty popular. Fast is for open wheel/funny car only, quick is for door cars only. The third part of the program is the Fineline, which takes up to 32 of the non-qualifiers from the fast and quick to race each other. We generally have full fields when they run....but it's a short season, usually 6-7 events the entire year.


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1229 | Location: Back home in Colorado! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Coloradoracer:
We have the Fast 16/Quick 16 program here. It's pretty popular. Fast is for open wheel/funny car only, quick is for door cars only. The third part of the program is the Fineline, which takes up to 32 of the non-qualifiers from the fast and quick to race each other. We generally have full fields when they run....but it's a short season, usually 6-7 events the entire year.


Wow. It's posts like these that show me that we just don't have the numbers around here to do anything like that. You get at least 16 each of quick and fast, and enough for overflow into a non qualifier race.
Is this on regular points days or on a separate day just for the quick/fast program? We would have half a dozen races that were run during the points days, and seldom filled the field with 16 of any car.


Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
 
Posts: 5962 | Location: Illinois | Registered: July 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 329L
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quote:
Originally posted by S/S Dart:
329L...So you qualify for the Q8 car field with the 2 time runs? If you don't make the Q8 field you race first round S/P only if you bought 2 entries at the Gate when you arrived?? Is this correct


If you dont qualify, you are doubled in super pro, if you bought a tech card for quick and super pro. Guys that only done a single entry, and dont qualify get to go to super pro 1st round.


Jeremiah Hall
 
Posts: 545 | Location: Evansville, IN | Registered: February 24, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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329L.....Why would you buy Both "quick" and S/P entries at the Gate when you arrived? It sounds like if you buy a "quick" entry and don't qualify you go into S/P...At least thats how I'm reading this...I can be pretty dense...sorry if I'm not understanding or mis read the original post on this format...
 
Posts: 204 | Location: North Royalton Ohio US*** | Registered: January 08, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Coloradoracer
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quote:
Originally posted by Bucky:
Wow. It's posts like these that show me that we just don't have the numbers around here to do anything like that. You get at least 16 each of quick and fast, and enough for overflow into a non qualifier race.
Is this on regular points days or on a separate day just for the quick/fast program? We would have half a dozen races that were run during the points days, and seldom filled the field with 16 of any car.


A good percentage of the time we fill the Fineline field too. A lot of racers will enter the quick and the fast knowing they won't qualify for that, but will for Fineline....


Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream Racing dragster
www.livinthedreamracing.com
"Speed kills but it's better than going slow!"
Authorized Amsoil Retailer
 
Posts: 1229 | Location: Back home in Colorado! | Registered: February 13, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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